120V MIG welders.

[Sodo]

That's a whole different argument Mig vs Stick. I prefer stick, but that's what I learned on. I've tried mig, but only once, and it didn't feel natural to me. I may get one in the future, but there doesn't seem to be nearly the number of used Migs for sale as there used Stick.

Agreed 120v Stick is off-topic. May even be a dinosaur for all I know. I should have assumed they existed but haven't previously heard of them.

As you can imagine, you have to un-learn to "feed in". If course it's no surprise to me that people are keeping the MIGs and selling the stick welders. The MIG handles everything from 1/16 to 3/16 so well, that the need to use a stick just doesn't come up for many people ( after buying a "good" MIG). For 1/4", beveling a joint is often done in less time than it takes to locate the chipping hammer much less uncoil the leads.

Actually low-end MIGs and old stick-welders are pretty low cost. Some tools at low cost perform fine but not sure I'd extend that to a welder unless I was able to test the welder in question. I have never tried a low end MIG welder, zero experience.

Stick is cheap only if 230v is "easy to get". Without 230v then even the higher end 120v MIGs cost less than a "free" Stick welder. "High-end 120v MIG" sounds like a misnomer, I suppose "high-end" would start at 120/240v.

Someday SOMEONE ( can't imagine who it might be ) might show TBN what that a $399 Everlast 140E can do. Maybe he will even setup a 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" plate, and weld continuous until it shuts down. I have not yet seen a reason to consider "duty cycle" but that might change my opinion.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Ahem...me here. I received the 120V 140E iMIG yesterday evening. I'd be out today testing it, but heat index is 110 or so. The MIG may or may not overheat, but I definitely will. Hoping to get some rain to cool things off, if it doesn't steam back up as soon as it stops. I'll start this afternoon looking at it if I can stand it and at least post some more detailed pictures if I can by tonight late. I am also going to take a different approach with it, and take it out of my welding facilities and take it over to a friends welding shop where there are different types of projects going on from what people have seen on the other videos, and maybe give it a good practical testing. The old video camera has seen better days. I may be trying out the new Galaxy tablet's capabilities to some HD filming. May not be steller, but may work until I can work myself into a new video situation.

 

[Sodo]

Ahem...me here. I received the 120V 140E iMIG yesterday evening. I'd be out today testing it, but heat index is 110 or so. The MIG may or may not overheat, but I definitely will. Hoping to get some rain to cool things off, if it doesn't steam back up as soon as it stops. I'll start this afternoon looking at it if I can stand it and at least post some more detailed pictures if I can by tonight late. I am also going to take a different approach with it, and take it out of my welding facilities and take it over to a friends welding shop where there are different types of projects going on from what people have seen on the other videos, and maybe give it a good practical testing.

Understood about the heat! It's hot here too but not that hot. I was outside yesterday from 2PM to 6 and it wore me out like a 10 hour day. Took extra work hustling to get out of the heat too! I was under the gun to get something done and would NOT be welding for fun in that heat. I was just blasting down the hot glue and running back to stand by the fan again. I was more worried that perspiration would run into my eye, (than about the weld).

Just building warehouse tables. When I do a bridge or the inevitable and unusually common tow-hitch for heavy eqpt (as is on the list of so many 120v owners) I'll do it on a cooler day.

=========

There must be some weld length where the 140E will overheat, and shut down. I'm just interested in the how & when it happens, to decide if duty-cycle truly merits inclusion to the list of concerns for a hobby/maintenance buyer. People wanna "know", want to see an example, not just repeat something they read on the internets (some people, anyway).

The only feedback I have to offer amounts to null-data ( = hasn't ever happened to me). Lets see the how/when it actually happens. When you have time, of course!

 

[aczlan]

I am "polling" for some firsthand experience. I'd like to know whether it's internet legend, hearsay, department store welders, or good old "TRUTH". WHERE does this internet wisdom come from? So far I've come across no firsthand experience (with detail, settings, welder brands, timeframe etc). I've not seen a single 'experience' with enough crucial details to be usable for any "conclusion". Consequently my own experience (of never had the 135 shut down) stands out as pretty good info.

On my RTV trailer project that I linked to earlier (on one of your 120v threads), I started that project with a Craftsman 135 amp MIG and finished with a Miller 211, both on 120v, running shielding gas (75/25 IIRC). The Craftsman was using a mix of .030 and .035 wire, the Miller was only using 0.035 wire.

Both tripped a 20 amp breaker numerous times (the Craftsman more than the Miller). The Craftsman overheated and went into thermal protection mode a couple of times when running the .035 wire, I dont think that the Miller ever did.

The Craftsman was maxed out on heat and close to it on wire speed. The Miller we put in Autoset mode and set it to the thickness of the thicker metal.

Aaron Z

 

[Sodo]

Well there, starting to get some data points. Was this .035 solid or flux core?

Yes thicker wire seems like it might require more power, but this is just an assumption on my part. My Miller 135 can be used up to .030 solid wire or .035 Flux core (which is hollow).

I have only used .023 on the Miller 135; and .030 wire with the MultiMatic 200.

====================

I am a little more than surprised "TBN welding forum" has no experts available who can simply tell us how it's done, as opposed to letting the hobby/maintenance guys bumble around and flesh it out.

This is not rocket science; 120v MIGs have been on the market for 20+ years, and are very refined units at this point. So far the only "experts" who respond (the Arcs) don't have any 120v experience and ( it seems ) they don't intend to get any. Which is perfectly acceptable but highlights a significant gap in the available forum expertise.

So why doesn't "TBN welding forum" have someone who's interested, experienced, and can simply tell us how it is? Is the "TBN welding forum" just too small? Have they been here in the past and quit posting?

I think "TBN welding forum" could use some 120v expert assistance and looking fwd to Mark cranking up that 140E! Most of what I learn is by my own discovery which is kinda slow going.

 

[aczlan]

Well there, starting to get some data points. Was this .035 solid or flux core?
Yes thicker wire seems like it might require more power, but this is just an assumption on my part. My Miller 135 can be used up to .030 solid wire or .035 Flux core (which is hollow).
I have only used .023 on the Miller 135; and .030 wire with the MultiMatic 200.

It was solid core wire (as evidenced by the fact that I said that I was using shielding gas).

I am a little more than surprised "TBN welding forum" has no experts available who can simply tell us how it's done, as opposed to letting the hobby/maintenance guys flesh it out. This is not rocket science; 120v welders have been on the market for 20+ years, and are very refined units at this point. So far the only "experts" we have (the Arcs) don't have any 120v experience and ( it seems ) they don't intend to get any. Which is perfectly acceptable, they don't have the need.
So why doesn't "TBN welding forum" have someone who can simply tell us how it is? "TBN welding forum" seems to be in need of this kind of expert assistance. I'd sure appreciate it, most of what I learn is by my own discovery

Tell us how what is done?
How to use a welder at or beyond the manufacturers recommended limits on material thickness? That has been done, but in the context of a larger welder and one needs to adapt the technique and if one is lookign to buy, it makes sense to get something large enough to easily handle all your needs.
Most people on here need to occasionally (or frequently) work with thicker metal than a 120v mig can consistently weld solidly in the hands of an inexperienced user (it might look nice, but it may not hold up).
Most people on here have a "buy once, cry once" mentality and as such will recommend that people purchase equipment (be it a tractor, a trailer, a shop or a welder) that will comfortably fill their needs now and if they need a little more down the road.

Anyhow, here is a thread with suggestions on the best way to fix a broken bushhog using a 120v MIG: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/310480-welding-repair-bush-hog-question.html
Not a 120v welder, but working with heavy material (in relation to one's welder): http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/304222-butt-welding-1-plate.html


Aaron Z

 

[k0ua]

As far as a 120v stick? 3/32" does sound like an upper limit. I recall welding with 3/32 and was no fun getting it struck. Even maintaining the arc with the flex of the (full length) electrode it was very difficult to control. Due to the flex you couldn't really feel the flux touching the workpiece. I recall burning 1/3 off the rod on scrap befor moving over to a critical weld on the workpiece. (this is 35 years ago!) I can't see any reason to use a 3/32 stick if there's a decent MIG nearby. I would try 3/32" stick again for nostalgia sake though. Maybe soon!

Now Sodo, don't go knocking 3/32 stick. Please don't badmouth things you don't know anything about (sauce for the goose?) A good stick of 3/32 7018 runs really nice and is easy to control and lay down beautiful beads. Even I have done it.

 

[Sodo]

Now Sodo, don't go knocking 3/32 stick. Please don't badmouth things you don't know anything about (sauce for the goose?)

James that's good forum advice! Maybe I should have called it a "distant memory".

It was solid core wire (as evidenced by the fact that I said that I was using shielding gas).

OK thanks. Agreed using max wire size.035 might push the machine to its limit.

Tell us how what is done?
How to use a welder at or beyond the manufacturers recommended limits on material thickness? That has been done, but in the context of a larger welder and one needs to adapt the technique and if one is lookign to buy, it makes sense to get something large enough to easily handle all your needs.

Yep I think most users will need to use a 120v machine within its limits most of the time. But appreciate help to use it towards the end of its limits because that happens sometimes and you want to know what to do. Then they can decide whether more $$$ to cover the once a year or 5 years, or more, if need for a bigger machine is worth the $$$.

Some folks see 120v machines on Craigslist, where the seller was simply unable to get proper assistance how to use it. Maybe had nobody to help other than forums? Price can be a compelling purchase if it's a quality machine.

Most people on here need to occasionally (or frequently) work with thicker metal than a 120v mig can consistently weld solidly in the hands of an inexperienced user (it might look nice, but it may not hold up).

Often it doesn't look nice but holds up. Or it might look nice AND hold up, which is what members want help with.

Most people on here have a "buy once, cry once" mentality and as such will recommend that people purchase equipment (be it a tractor, a trailer, a shop or a welder) that will comfortably fill their needs now and if they need a little more down the road.

Not so sure about "most people". I think overbuying is much more "postable" than "making do". Buy once cry once may be better represented because sometimes you're never really sure that the guy's 120v welder was at fault. I wonder if, in your case, if you would have achieved an entirely different conclusion using .023 wire. Just guessing here.

For most guys who don't have 230v available, buying 230v becomes buying twice and crying twice. Can't forget the significant cost of buying a 230v outlet.

I'll have a look at those threads.

 

[paulharvey]

In my case 208/220/240v was easy to add, but in an inconvenience place. I actually had the wire, and outlet to do it; just needed a breaker; but it's next to the air conditioning sub panel; about 100 ft from the shed. Workable, just a pain to drag everything over to the outlet.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I am "polling" for some firsthand experience. I'd like to know whether it's internet legend, hearsay, department store welders, or good old "TRUTH". WHERE does this internet wisdom come from? So far I've come across no firsthand experience (with detail, settings, welder brands, timeframe etc). I've not seen a single 'experience' with enough crucial details to be usable for any "conclusion". Consequently my own experience (of never had the 135 shut down) stands out as pretty good info.

I have never tried my Miller 135 on a 15A circuit, only 20A. 15A may supply a lower setting, but blowing a 15A breaker sounds inevitable when the MFR specifies 20A.

Why, right after my post, would you say you've come across no firsthand experience?

I just gave you two people who both pushed their migs too far, too often - me and my brother.

Both of us ran 20 amps circuits naturally, 75/25 shielding, 0.030" wire.
My circuit is only about 6" from the panel and the only plug on it.
Both machines ran much longer in the winter naturally, overheated fast in the hot part of the summer.

On your separate comment about the 120v sticks - the new inverters run excellent - I'm curious if the new inverter migs will share similar success.