#'s can be bent lots of ways..... kinda what got me started on this thread........
Hyundai paid $100M for being off 1 to 6mpg. On a 40mpg car, 6mpg is 15%. The 1mpg fine was for being off by 2.5%.
Rgds, D.
120VAC LED bulbs - double check wattage
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#'s can be bent lots of ways..... kinda what got me started on this thread........
Hyundai paid $100M for being off 1 to 6mpg. On a 40mpg car, 6mpg is 15%. The 1mpg fine was for being off by 2.5%.
Rgds, D.
Zerk
Veteran Member
My point is, mpg can make a lot more difference to the consumer then watts.
But I do find it BS that they are not going by total consumption. You see some odd stuff with lights, because most people don't understand electricity. Most people have no idea what a lumen is.
Soundguy
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And try to compare for them to radiant flux, and then listen to them ask lumens o'er watt questions 
My initial thought when reading that was, well that appears to mean that CFL is more efficient than LED - assuming CFL isnt doing the same thing. And that could be the "big" deal. A few watts by itself may not be the end of the world, but being able to say 'most efficient' could make the difference between widespread LED adoption or not. I've not researched any of it, this is just my reaction to reading the post.
Keith
k0ua
Epic Contributor
In general most LED's are more efficient than most CFL's. But some badly designed LED's power supply's may not be much more efficient. An example would be some of these direct replacement LED 4 foot tubes that do not require rewiring to remove the original fluorescent ballast. Sure it is convenient, BUT if you will take a few minutes to wire around the ballast you will save a significant amount of power, especially if you consider a deployment with many fixtures.
One thing that is seldom discussed is how dirty from an RFI/EMI some of these LED power supply's are. Shortcuts are taken and the proper suppression components are not installed to get to a price point.
I have several versions of the Cree products, and so far none of them have exhibited any RFI/EMI that I can find. They may cost a bit more than the bargain no name LED's starting to show up now, but it is worth it to me to not have to deal with the radio spectrum pollution.
I hate to be the spoiler here, but both the current and wattage numbers are likely correct. With many AC devices, volts X current does not always equal watts. There is another electrical term called "Power Factor". Incandescent bulbs have a power factor of 1.0, which means that volts X amps are watts. Many electronic devices have a power factor less than 1, and since watts (true power) is volts X amps X power factor, if the power factor is less than 1, volts X amps will be greater than the actual watts (note that volts X amps is referred to as VA). Some electronic devices (like newer PC power supplies) add a function called "Power Factor Correction" which will result in a power factor of close to 1. Good news is that your electric meter measures true watts, not VA, so you do not pay for power factor less than 1. Some industrial users do pay for what is known as "bad power factor", but residential customers do not.
In order to read the true watts you would need a true power factor meter. many are quite expensive, but you can buy something like a Kill-A-Watt meter which will read the true watts as well as VA.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
Paul
In order to read the true watts you would need a true power factor meter. many are quite expensive, but you can buy something like a Kill-A-Watt meter which will read the true watts as well as VA.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
Paul
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The picture in my mind didn't convey clearly into words.... the 10 watts was the large font # on the display card the LED lamp was in. The current and volts label was the small print on the LED bulb itself, visible through the clear plastic.
No CFL bulbs were involved in what I was banging on about......
Rgds, D.
I am on a residential smart meter. My last bill shows an Adjust. Factor of 1.0723 , which multiplies my metered usage to arrive at the final kwh I am billed for. I would expect that many residential smart (digital) meters are capable of assessing PF.
Whether that is an actual PF # in my case, or whether it's just another Because We Can revenue boosting technique will have to wait till I have the time/patience to interrogate my local utility.
You raise a good point...... the watts you get billed for (Real vs. Apparent Power) may depend on the age of your meter.
Rgds, D.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Well, gotta look at the flip side of the coin here too.
Not discussing power factor, but if that bulb indeed consumes 15w and has a 10w LED chip.........if it was labeled as a 15w led there would be people upset can call that misleading as they were thinking they would get a brighter 15w led chip in there.
The bulb is labeled as what it is. A 10w LED chip that produces xxx lumens correct? With the powersupply, it takes MORE than 10w to power a 10w LED chip. Just understand that and you are fine.
Florescent are no different. A pair of 32w T-8 tubes are going to use more than 32w because it takes power for the ballast.
A 1HP......0.75kw electric motor takes more than 750w to make that power. Why does no one get upset when they see a .75kw motor pull 10a @ 120v? Trying to sell it as a 1.2kw / 1.5HP motor and everyone flames them for misleading info as there is no way a 10a 120v motor is capable of such OUTPUT power.
Not discussing power factor, but if that bulb indeed consumes 15w and has a 10w LED chip.........if it was labeled as a 15w led there would be people upset can call that misleading as they were thinking they would get a brighter 15w led chip in there.
The bulb is labeled as what it is. A 10w LED chip that produces xxx lumens correct? With the powersupply, it takes MORE than 10w to power a 10w LED chip. Just understand that and you are fine.
Florescent are no different. A pair of 32w T-8 tubes are going to use more than 32w because it takes power for the ballast.
A 1HP......0.75kw electric motor takes more than 750w to make that power. Why does no one get upset when they see a .75kw motor pull 10a @ 120v? Trying to sell it as a 1.2kw / 1.5HP motor and everyone flames them for misleading info as there is no way a 10a 120v motor is capable of such OUTPUT power.
