14LA update please
- Thread starter anonz
- Start date
- Views: 6926
RickB
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2000
- Messages
- 15,143
- Location
- Up the road from Dollar General WNC
- Tractor
- Just a Scag
Re: 7308 loader control valves
I think that would be a reasonable request for anyone to make. One would like to think relief pressures are checked as a matter of course, but often they are not.
I think that would be a reasonable request for anyone to make. One would like to think relief pressures are checked as a matter of course, but often they are not.
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Re: 7308 loader control valves
I think it would be a reasonable request. It is a setting set at the factory. The dealer simply bolts things together. Chances they will check it for accuracy are pretty slim. Remember too, that value will change over the years and in the first year, expect that it will drop a little. My L48 is a snap to check myself with a hydraulic gauge attached at the rear hoe port.
After looking at the specifications for the 7308, it is a pretty weak loader both in lift, rollback and breakout force, it needs an upgrade and modernizing.
I think it would be a reasonable request. It is a setting set at the factory. The dealer simply bolts things together. Chances they will check it for accuracy are pretty slim. Remember too, that value will change over the years and in the first year, expect that it will drop a little. My L48 is a snap to check myself with a hydraulic gauge attached at the rear hoe port.
After looking at the specifications for the 7308, it is a pretty weak loader both in lift, rollback and breakout force, it needs an upgrade and modernizing.
spencer200
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Messages
- 994
Re: 7308 loader control valves
The loader will do the the lifting and breakout! its the front axle on the tractor that New Holland is more worried about! Thats why they are set artificially low.
The loader will do the the lifting and breakout! its the front axle on the tractor that New Holland is more worried about! Thats why they are set artificially low.
Bush Hog 2346QT
So I am now thinking about a Bush Hog 2346QT, which has a little under 2X the performance of the NH7308. Questions that I have now:
- If the hydraulic flow specified for this loader is 9gpm, and the pump capacity for the TC33D Hydraulics is 7.6 and the power steering pump capacity is 5.1 -- what are the ramifications?
- Will a loader with roughly 2X stress/damage the front axle. How would I find out the tolerances of the TC33D front axle?
If any one has this loader, or the M246 or the 2246QT, I would be interested in your experiences with your loader.
Thanks again for the great advise.
BUSH HOG® 2346QT Front End Loader
So I am now thinking about a Bush Hog 2346QT, which has a little under 2X the performance of the NH7308. Questions that I have now:
- If the hydraulic flow specified for this loader is 9gpm, and the pump capacity for the TC33D Hydraulics is 7.6 and the power steering pump capacity is 5.1 -- what are the ramifications?
- Will a loader with roughly 2X stress/damage the front axle. How would I find out the tolerances of the TC33D front axle?
If any one has this loader, or the M246 or the 2246QT, I would be interested in your experiences with your loader.
Thanks again for the great advise.
BUSH HOG® 2346QT Front End Loader
thcri
Elite Member
Re: Bush Hog 2346QT
anonz,
I have the 7308 loader with a TC29D. Seeing other post of the aftermarket loaders I am questioning their capablility also. Example, I loaded my bucket with about 600lbs of salt for my water softner. It was fifty pound bags that I wanted to get around to the back of the house. I did not have any weights on the back of the tractor and didn't think I needed them. But my front tires looked pretty squished and I could tell the back end of the tractor was pretty bouncy. I think the load limit on the 7308 is about 800 lbs. So if I wanted to lift 800 lbs I am sure I would have to have a pretty good weight in the back of the tractor. As far as the front axle, I am sure it would hold it. When I was traveling a couple of weeks ago I stopped at a New Holland Dealer that only sold the Bush Hog Loader and he never has had any problems. But I do question the safety of having that much weight on your bucket and keeping the tractor in a safe position.
My loader has done everything I have asked it to and my personal opinion is the other loaders and not worth paying $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 more for them. I paid $2,450.00 for mine.
Now if your life will be using the FEL all day then I guess I would think different but for the general use, snow, dirt pushing trees around I have not had any trouble.
Just my opinion.
anonz,
I have the 7308 loader with a TC29D. Seeing other post of the aftermarket loaders I am questioning their capablility also. Example, I loaded my bucket with about 600lbs of salt for my water softner. It was fifty pound bags that I wanted to get around to the back of the house. I did not have any weights on the back of the tractor and didn't think I needed them. But my front tires looked pretty squished and I could tell the back end of the tractor was pretty bouncy. I think the load limit on the 7308 is about 800 lbs. So if I wanted to lift 800 lbs I am sure I would have to have a pretty good weight in the back of the tractor. As far as the front axle, I am sure it would hold it. When I was traveling a couple of weeks ago I stopped at a New Holland Dealer that only sold the Bush Hog Loader and he never has had any problems. But I do question the safety of having that much weight on your bucket and keeping the tractor in a safe position.
My loader has done everything I have asked it to and my personal opinion is the other loaders and not worth paying $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 more for them. I paid $2,450.00 for mine.
Now if your life will be using the FEL all day then I guess I would think different but for the general use, snow, dirt pushing trees around I have not had any trouble.
Just my opinion.
bmac
Veteran Member
Re: Bush Hog 2346QT
Murph,
According to NH specs, your 7308 is rated at 875-1020 lbs.
Not to change the subject, but, based upon your experience, can I assume that the 1090 lb rating of the 12LA is "theoretical"? I.E., on a TC24D, placing anywhere near the max load in the bucket will send this little Boomer flat on its nose? How much counter weight in the rear would be necessary to prevent a nose dive?
If this is going to detract from the original posters question I'll be happy to move it to a seperate thread.
Murph,
According to NH specs, your 7308 is rated at 875-1020 lbs.
Not to change the subject, but, based upon your experience, can I assume that the 1090 lb rating of the 12LA is "theoretical"? I.E., on a TC24D, placing anywhere near the max load in the bucket will send this little Boomer flat on its nose? How much counter weight in the rear would be necessary to prevent a nose dive?
If this is going to detract from the original posters question I'll be happy to move it to a seperate thread.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Re: Bush Hog 2346QT
I think spencer200 pointed out the key issue with any FEL on any tractor, i.e., can the front axle, actually the entire tractor, handle it? Most (all?) tractor manufacturers design a complete package and take into consideration, among other factors, the front axle, tractor weight, the FEL construction, hydraulics, etc. I would imagine that you will not get NH to recommend placing any more load on the front axle than what the NH loader places on it.
The other FEL manufacturers are trying to sell their product so they have to differentiate it from their competitors, including OEM. While they can offer different buckets, different ways to mount the bucket, etc. what most people want to do with a FEL is lift stuff, so they advertise how much they can lift. A second feature is usually roll back angles, bucket dump angles, etc.
Conversely, NH wants to sell tractors, and bigger tractors means bigger $ and more profit. Wanna loader that can lift more? Buy a bigger tractor. Somewhere in all this is the truth about what the Class II Boomer can safely lift. It's probably higher than the capacity of the 7308, but less than the BH2346QT.
My opinion is that if someone wants to consistently lift more than the 7308 can handle, e.g., loading limestone into trucks all day long, then they ought to get a bigger tractor, not just a higher capacity loader.
I think spencer200 pointed out the key issue with any FEL on any tractor, i.e., can the front axle, actually the entire tractor, handle it? Most (all?) tractor manufacturers design a complete package and take into consideration, among other factors, the front axle, tractor weight, the FEL construction, hydraulics, etc. I would imagine that you will not get NH to recommend placing any more load on the front axle than what the NH loader places on it.
The other FEL manufacturers are trying to sell their product so they have to differentiate it from their competitors, including OEM. While they can offer different buckets, different ways to mount the bucket, etc. what most people want to do with a FEL is lift stuff, so they advertise how much they can lift. A second feature is usually roll back angles, bucket dump angles, etc.
Conversely, NH wants to sell tractors, and bigger tractors means bigger $ and more profit. Wanna loader that can lift more? Buy a bigger tractor. Somewhere in all this is the truth about what the Class II Boomer can safely lift. It's probably higher than the capacity of the 7308, but less than the BH2346QT.
My opinion is that if someone wants to consistently lift more than the 7308 can handle, e.g., loading limestone into trucks all day long, then they ought to get a bigger tractor, not just a higher capacity loader.
thcri
Elite Member
Re: Bush Hog 2346QT
bmac,
I have to say no!! The 12LA is a New Holland Loader and I would trust their complete specs. But yes you will need counter weight to achive it. You may be able to lift the 1090 pounds off the ground a foot or two but I would be willing to bet you the back tires would be close to coming off the ground without any counter balance. And the higher you lift the more proned to someting happening. Also the LA series loader may affect the tractor different from the 7308 or the 7106. I think as long as you stick with the manufacture, you will be ok. I also believe that companies like Bush Hog and Woods will tend to stretch the truth some. They do want to sell their loader. They may tell you they can lift 1900 pounds but if the hydraulics can't handle it what good is it. There is also another thing here that everyone should understand. If you buy a New Holland Tractor, and a Bush Hog loader, and there is an accident. Now who is to blame. That is something that could get tied up in court for a long time. With a matched system and something happens, there is only one company involved.
some more pennies that no one probably wants.
murph
bmac,
I have to say no!! The 12LA is a New Holland Loader and I would trust their complete specs. But yes you will need counter weight to achive it. You may be able to lift the 1090 pounds off the ground a foot or two but I would be willing to bet you the back tires would be close to coming off the ground without any counter balance. And the higher you lift the more proned to someting happening. Also the LA series loader may affect the tractor different from the 7308 or the 7106. I think as long as you stick with the manufacture, you will be ok. I also believe that companies like Bush Hog and Woods will tend to stretch the truth some. They do want to sell their loader. They may tell you they can lift 1900 pounds but if the hydraulics can't handle it what good is it. There is also another thing here that everyone should understand. If you buy a New Holland Tractor, and a Bush Hog loader, and there is an accident. Now who is to blame. That is something that could get tied up in court for a long time. With a matched system and something happens, there is only one company involved.
some more pennies that no one probably wants.
murph
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Re: Bush Hog 2346QT
Mike good points. I have been looking at a replacement tractor for my L48. I have looked at NH, JD and Kubota. The TC33D, the JD 4310 and Kubota L3130. I have completely eliminated the NH because the loader available from NH is to light duty to consider effective for me especially when compared to what the other two manufactuers offer. If the front axle on the NH utilizing the NH 7308 is designed to continually support a lift limit of only 800lb at the loader pivot, it's rated very low and it would major concern to me. The 7308 at 800lb at the pivot compares rather poorly to the JD 430 @ 1261lbs and Kubota LA 723 @1870lbs and all three tractors are fairly close in classification. The breakout force on the 7308 is perhaps the weakest part of this loader. Rated at 2344lb at the pivot compares to JD's 430 of 3299lbs at the pivot and Kubota, which does not rate at the pivot but rather 500mm (about 20") forward is 2605lbs which if measured at the pivot would be well over 3000lbs
"My opinion is that if someone wants to consistently lift more than the 7308 can handle, e.g., loading limestone into trucks all day long, then they ought to get a bigger tractor, not just a higher capacity loader."
I think one might add to this and say they may even consider another brand if cost/size is an issue. While the NH TC33D is a great tractor with great ergonomics, the loader issue will in my opinion, always be a deterent until a more competitive design comes out. I'd like to see a 14LA even if it means getting a beefier axle added to the front. Perhaps NH has already addressed this issue, I am going from a slightly outdated 2001 brochure, but it was the only one the dealer had.
Rat...
Mike good points. I have been looking at a replacement tractor for my L48. I have looked at NH, JD and Kubota. The TC33D, the JD 4310 and Kubota L3130. I have completely eliminated the NH because the loader available from NH is to light duty to consider effective for me especially when compared to what the other two manufactuers offer. If the front axle on the NH utilizing the NH 7308 is designed to continually support a lift limit of only 800lb at the loader pivot, it's rated very low and it would major concern to me. The 7308 at 800lb at the pivot compares rather poorly to the JD 430 @ 1261lbs and Kubota LA 723 @1870lbs and all three tractors are fairly close in classification. The breakout force on the 7308 is perhaps the weakest part of this loader. Rated at 2344lb at the pivot compares to JD's 430 of 3299lbs at the pivot and Kubota, which does not rate at the pivot but rather 500mm (about 20") forward is 2605lbs which if measured at the pivot would be well over 3000lbs
"My opinion is that if someone wants to consistently lift more than the 7308 can handle, e.g., loading limestone into trucks all day long, then they ought to get a bigger tractor, not just a higher capacity loader."
I think one might add to this and say they may even consider another brand if cost/size is an issue. While the NH TC33D is a great tractor with great ergonomics, the loader issue will in my opinion, always be a deterent until a more competitive design comes out. I'd like to see a 14LA even if it means getting a beefier axle added to the front. Perhaps NH has already addressed this issue, I am going from a slightly outdated 2001 brochure, but it was the only one the dealer had.
Rat...
