16LA loader control

[tc35mike]

Hello - I recently purchased a TC35 w/ 16LA loader. Since I got it a couple months ago, it seems like the loader is rather slow, and I cannot make it do 2 things at once (like dumping while lifting). I thought it was just the very cold weather I have had, but now it is getting warmer out but there has been no improvement. I changed the hydraulic filter (only has 35 hrs) and that did not help either. The manual for the loader lists the times each motion should take and it certainly does not run as quick as it should. I also find it odd that it is very difficult to dump while lifting, or curl the bucket while lifting.

Anyone out there seen a problem like this??
Thanks!

 

[markie61]

I think all specs are at PTO speed - higher revs should help with times.

I do not think that you can, in fact, dump and lift at the same time. There are point (or "corners" as I like to think of them) on the stick where you can simulate the dump/lift with little movements - just takes some getting used to. My father-in-law's old Ford could do this, but there were two different sticks - one for the dump and the other for lift.

If you have still having problems with the roll/dump, you may want to check your connectors to make sure they are seated well.

Mark

 

[jinman]

Mike, I've never timed my 16LA, but I don't even notice that it's slow. If I keep the engine rpm up around 2000, the loader is quick enough for everything I want to do. I'm sure your dealer could measure the hydraulic flow and pressure to make sure you have enough flow to meet specification. Have you had your 50 hr service yet? That would be a good time to have your dealer check your tractor. Another option is to compare your tractor to another one on the dealer's lot. That would surely tell you if your tractor is slower than normal.

As far as I know, it is not common on utility tractors to be able to do two operations at the same time with the loader. You might be able to dump the bucket in "regenerative" mode (joystick all the way to the right) and lift the arms at the same time, but that is the only two things I think can be done at the same time. In the case of the 16LA, when you are raising the lift arms, the curl cylinders are completely disconnected from the hydraulic circuit and they are in a condition of hydraulic lock where they cannot move. This allows all the pressure and flow to be available to the arm lift operation. The opposite is true for the lift arms when you are curling or dumping the bucket.

For example, considering you could do two operations at once, if you had a load near the maximum lift of the arms and you went to curl the bucket, the lift arms would lose part of their lift strength and drop because part of the fluid and pressure would be diverted to the curl function. By limiting the operation to only one function, the curl or lift arms can have all the pressure available and the other function is locked. I believe that is the common mode of operation on most CUTs.

When you move your joystick to the far right to dump in regenerative mode, the curl side of the hydraulic cylinders are connected to the dump side and the fluid is allowed to freely flow from one side to the other without going through the hydraulic pump. This speeds up the dump operation. In this instance, you might be able to lift the arms while the bucket dumps, but I don't see that described in my Owner's Manual, so I'm not guaranteeing it is supposed to work that way.

Mike, do you have experience with another loader which operated faster or did two operations at once? I've rented large backhoe/loaders and I don't remember them operating any differently, but they are a little quicker on lift and curl. I'm just wondering to what you are comparing your 16LA loader. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[mahlers]

I'd swear that my loader (33LA MSL) will lift and curl simultaneously by pulling the joystick diagonally toward me. Maybe it just looks like it because I have the self-levelling loader - I'll have to really pay attention tonight. On just about all the newer loaders that I checked out before buying mine, I thought that two-function control was pretty standard. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[LoganWildman]

You can raise and curl out (or in) at the same time, you just have to raise slower. I use this blend when I am loading trucks. Also, higher RPM will give you quicker response. It does take a little time to find the sweet spot on the lever to blend the functions, but it is possible. I think this is a trade off for the greater lift capacity. I have spent many hours on a 1720 running its loader and it is much more responsive and easier to blend loader functions, but it can't lift anything close to my 16LA.

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You can raise and curl out (or in) at the same time, you just have to raise slower. )</font>

I had never tried "blending" as you stated, but after reading your post, I went out and tried it. Sure enough, you are correct. Even though none of my manuals say you can do this, my loader raised and curled at the same time. ...I'm wrong again. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of course, the other thing you said was "slowly" and that's exactly what I found. I might even call it painfully slow until the bucket reaches full curl. Then all the pressure and flow is available to the lift arms and they go to normal speed. At least I was correct in saying the lift and curl maximums are reduced when you are blending movements.

At any rate, I spent all afternoon pushing brush and filling gullies and I am sure happy with the speed and power of my 16LA. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[tc35mike]

Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback....

I got my hands on a stopwatch last night and timed the operations on the loader. Running at about 2000 rpm, raise time is 6.3 sec, down time is 3.6, dump 2.75, and roll is 3.6 sec. Manual states 4.2/3.2/2.0/2.6. So it seems to me that everyting takes about 40% longer than it should (other than lowering - I figure gravity is helping here?)

As far as being able to do multiple movements at once, the only other machines I have ever run could do it…. I had an older 555 TLB and it was no problem. The joystick on my friends little Kubota even has arrows at 45 deg marks showing that you can do this. Being able to curl while lifing is necessary when scooping up dirt as you get a much better breakout force this way, and it is much faster. Dumping the bucket while lifting is equally important for me.

I did play around with my tractor more and found that I can make it do more than one thing at a time, but only when the tractor is sitting still and I can concentrate on gently moving the joystick. If I am actually driving it I am bouncing around too much to “ease” the joystick into the right spots. This was not the case on my 555. I did also find that the operations get slower when doing two things at once, but I would expect that because the hydraulic flow is being shared.

I will need my 50 hr service soon, so I will just have the dealer check the flow rates while they have it. My guess is that if there is a problem with the flow rates or pressures, it would make it more difficult to “blend” loader functions. I’ll let you know what happens…

-Mike

 

[LoganWildman]

I haven't found mine to be that slow, but I haven't timed it either. You'll get the hang of the control with practice. I use mine all the time to load trucks, and the raise and dump blend functions is mandatory to avoid spillage and damage to the hood! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[PineRidge]

I also use my 17LA to unload trucks with the pallet forks. If you don't use blend as you lower you will most likely lose the load.

 

[paccorti]

Mike,

I too thought my loader was slow but I changed my mind when I had a heavy load in it. At those times it seems too fast! With heavy loads you can make the tractor rock back and forth quite a bit even when you are being gentle with the loader.

With practice you will get used to performing two loader tasks (curl and lift) at a time. What you need to remember is that the boom lift requires a lot more flow than the bucket curl (lets assume an empty bucket). If for example I wanted to lift and curl my bucket and the joystick was the center of a clock, I'd pull the joystick to around 7 o'clock. Much more than that (towards 8 o'clock) and I'll get mostly curl and no boom lift.

It sounds complicated but with seat time it is all second nature to me now and I don't even think about it. The same will happen to you.

If you think your lift times are slow get them checked out. I'll try to time mine the next time I use it.

Peter