17LA loader pin wear problem

Slippy · Apr 13, 2008

My TC40DAss 17LA loader has some kind of wear at the four pins that hold the QA braket on the loader. To explain, if the loader is in the full dump position you can take your hand and wiggle the bucket back and forth a few inches. This also makes it difficult to place the cutting edge of the bucket where need. If I put the bucket in the flat to ground position as indicated by the position bar and notch, when the bucket comes into contact with the ground it will move a couple of inches up and down.

I have the older style 17LA loader that does not have bushings. I did go to NH dealer and he sold me 16 bushings. Took it apart and no bushings. The pins do not seem to have noticable wear marks on them.

Any ideas on how to fix the problem short of replacing the whole front end of the loader?

jinman · Apr 13, 2008

The obvious question would be to ask if you lubricate your loader on a regular basis. I lube mine daily under heavy use and sometimes twice a day. I carry a grease gun in my toolbox. With almost 1300 hours my 16LA pins are still very tight. It seems unlikely that you could have 2" of slop, but I think this is very unusual and may indicate the wrong size of pins were installed on the loader. I don't believe it is standard to have bushings.

Soundguy · Apr 14, 2008

If it did have slop and eggged the bores out.. it will sure need to be milled for bushings now.. or have new parrent bores welded on after yuo cut the old ones out.

Post a pic close up if you can showing the pin/bore, and the slop.

soundguy

Slippy · Apr 14, 2008

Grease all points on a regular basis, and as I said, the pins really don't show wear. It actually has been like this since I bought it. Will take some pics.
Thanks.

Soundguy · Apr 15, 2008

If the pins are hardened ( should be).. then they probably won't have worn much vs the mild steel bores they are probably running in..

soundguy

farmacist · Apr 15, 2008

It sounds like you might have slop in your dump hydrolic cylinders (like air in the cylinder) instead of your pins. Have you checked for that?? Frank

Soundguy · Apr 16, 2008

Cyl's would self bleed.

soundguy

Slippy · Apr 16, 2008

As near as I can tell, it is not the clys.

Here are some pictures. Sorry for the dirt, but it has been wet around here lately.

It is hard to show what I am talking about in the photos. If you can imagine taking the QA plate in your hand at the bottom of the plate and pulling up on it when the loader is off the ground, there is movement at all four pins. I pulled the side off on one side to try to show the pin itself. Also, there are a couple of pictures of the end of the pins. Don't know if this helps explain it or not.

Did return the bushings to the NH dealer today and they could not offer any other help except to suggest buying a new tractor. Guess I can't fault them for trying.

smitty9266 · Apr 17, 2008

check for bad cylinders had the same problem and it was the cause of the problem.

Lift up bucket off ground and with bucket parallel to ground shut off tractor and and disconnect the quick connects for the dump cyl's see if the bucket drops. If it does cyl's are bypassing and need to be rebuilt.

Jeff

RickB · Apr 17, 2008

Slippy said:
Grease all points on a regular basis, and as I said, the pins really don't show wear. It actually has been like this since I bought it. Will take some pics.
Thanks.

If you were my customer, I'd tell you that the photo evidence indicates the greasing interval is too long. The pivot at the lower end of the loader boom looks especially dry. Also, this loader has a 4-link design. More pivots=more clearance. If these pins and bores were close tolerance, some would gall and sieze.

jinman · Apr 17, 2008

Well, your pins certainly look loose. There is some obvious wear in the hole on the loader arm pin. I don't know what you have wiped before taking the picture, but the pivots also do look pretty dry. The most important pivot is the one at the end of the loader arm. That's the one I concentrate on most. Mine are not perfectly tight, but they don't seem to be nearly as loose as yours. I'll check the amount of play at my QA bracket and let you know how mine compares.

crashz · Apr 17, 2008

I'd say you should be greasing more frequently as well. Keep in mind that even with grease in the joints, the dirt will work its way in and act like a lapping compound. Fresh grease displaces the dirt. Seems like a waste of good grease if you buy quality products, but its the only way to force the dirt back out. Newer heavy equipment have seals on the joints to keep the dirt out.

The fix is to bore the bushings, install replacement bushings. Pressed in bronze bushing work well, and can be replaced as they wear out.

jinman · Apr 18, 2008

I removed my bucket yesterday and checked my bushings. Well. . .mine are as loose as yours. I've always noticed some slack in my bucket, but I never quantified it. I also grease my bucket every 8 hours and every 4 hours with heavy use. This obviously does not stop some wear as both you and I have experienced. I have never noticed any problem with the slack like you mentioned in your original post, but if it's any comfort, mine is just like yours.

have_blue · Apr 18, 2008

jinman said:
I removed my bucket yesterday and checked my bushings. Well. . .mine are as loose as yours. I've always noticed some slack in my bucket, but I never quantified it. I also grease my bucket every 8 hours and every 4 hours with heavy use. This obviously does not stop some wear as both you and I have experienced. I have never noticed any problem with the slack like you mentioned in your original post, but if it's any comfort, mine is just like yours.

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

The multi link at the bucket end causes any slack to be multiplied. If NH is going to use that design, they need to use hardened pins and easily changed bushings in the future.

Don't know if my bores are wallowed or the pins worn. Probably the bores, as it's hard to find good metal on equipment these days.

Even if it is the bores, it's probably easier and cheaper to make oversize pins than to bore and press in bushings. I may borrow a lathe and turn me a set using the hardest steel I can cut.

I was looking at a JD loader the other day, and it looked like the pins were eccentric with splines. That way, you can index the pin and it will tighten up like new (only while lifting, I suppose).

Slippy · Apr 18, 2008

Well heck. Like I said, the tractor has been this way since I bought it, and it is not that big of a deal I guess. I am planning to rip out some sod and would be nice if I could set the cutting edge of the bucket where I want it and it would stay there so I could get a nice clean cut.

There are two arms on this set up, one on each side of the cly. One arm has the pins welded into it, and the other side the arm slips over the pins. NH wants $68 for one side and $98 for the other, so to put new pins in, it would be about $200.

This tractor get the least use of any that I have, especially the loader. No question it could use some more grease, but no more use than I have put on it this should not be an issue. But again, the problem was pre me.

All four pins are lose in the bores, its not just one or the other. At the end of the bucket, it gets pretty lose. You can actually see the pins moving inside the holes. The is play in the cly bores as well.

Also, mine does not have bushings. I have an older serial number loader that did not come with the bushings, so there is nothing to replace. Not a good design from my perspective. The later serial number loaders do have bushings in them.

Jimman, sorry to bring the bad news to your attention.

Guess I just grease it up and keep going.
Time to grease it up and keep going.

DieselMonk · Apr 19, 2008

Made me curious. So I checked my 18LA quick attach. I've got very little play in mine. Sure the cutting edge will move a little, but not as much than you discribe.

Slippy · Apr 19, 2008

I cleaned up the entire tractor today and got to use my new air grease gun. Greased all the points real good and the bucket actually seems to respond a little better. Makes greasing a whole lot easier and quicker.

Soundguy · Apr 20, 2008

Dang.. they must like you here. Last time i saw a thread about loaders with no bushings and pins.. I suggested machining for cheap and easilly replacable bronze bushing inserts and got beat up and down each side of the forum.. a month later.. and now it's not such a bad idea.. makes ya wonder!

soundguy

crashz said:
I'd say you should be greasing more frequently as well. Keep in mind that even with grease in the joints, the dirt will work its way in and act like a lapping compound. Fresh grease displaces the dirt. Seems like a waste of good grease if you buy quality products, but its the only way to force the dirt back out. Newer heavy equipment have seals on the joints to keep the dirt out.

The fix is to bore the bushings, install replacement bushings. Pressed in bronze bushing work well, and can be replaced as they wear out.

jinman · Apr 20, 2008

Soundguy said:
Dang.. they must like you here. Last time i saw a thread about loaders with no bushings and pins.. I suggested machining for cheap and easilly replacable bronze bushing inserts and got beat up and down each side of the forum.. a month later.. and now it's not such a bad idea.. makes ya wonder!

soundguy

Yeah, but that's because you are so much fun to beat on.

Just kiddin'.