1962 Deere 2010 Overheating

[beenthere]

I misunderstood.. as thought you were differentiating between a "blow out" and a "flush out" in your post #7.

To me, a "flush out" is cleaning the inside workings of a radiator, not just the outside between the fins.

Think the OP here has internal cleaning needed, not external, and needs a "flush out".

 

[5030]

I believe he needs both actually, just blowing out the radiator externally without a pressure water flush won't dislodge all the crap and I bet there is a load of junk on the inside as well probably from not renewing the antifreeze in a timely manner. I change and flush my tractor cooling systems every 2 years. Drain the coolant, replace with fresh tap water and add a non sudsing detergent and run them until at operating temp (t'stat open fully) and run them an additional 30 minutes. Drain and flush again with clear tap water and add a mixture of 50 percent ethylene glycol and water. My tractors manufacturer (Kubota) recommends old style AF. When I refill them I also add DCA4 as it prevents the coolant from deteriorating. The OP's comment about the temperature slowly rising tells me the rad is not transferring heat properly.

 

[rScotty]

I use a garden hose spraying from the inside next to the fan forward. Lots of dish soap and a soft brush. It's easy to get the outside of the fins looking like new. A pressure washer could bend those fins & cause all kinds of problems.

If it's an old JD radiator it's worth saving and rebuilding. See if there is a radiator shop locally who does that kind of work. It takes a real craftsman to take one apart, clean it, and put it back together but it will be better than anything you can buy.

If that doesn't sound good to you, I've used Prestone Radiator FLush. It's an acid in crystalline formthat you put in the radiator for 15 minutes and then flush agan and again with a garden hose for an hour.... If done correctly it is as good as a rebuild. Incorrectly means you just bought a radiator.

To check if the OEM gauge and thermostat is working correctly you can simply run it without the radiator cap. Check the water temperature with a candy thermometer. When idleing & not working hard, the engine thermostat should keep it between 190 and 200F so it is well below boiling and the cap is not necessary. If it climbs past 205 shut it down and replace the thermostat and do the radiator cleaning inside and out as discussed. I've seen leaky water pumps, but never seen a water pump fail to move sufficient water. It was always something else. If the thermostat and cap are working right, most engines will do a density thermocycle circulation at idle enough to keep below boiling even without a water pump rotating at all.

To check a thermostat take it out, read the degrees printed on the top, and put it in a full pan of hot water along with a candy thermometer. It should open up at about 190 to 200 degrees. If it doesn't open until 220 there is your problem.

All the pressure cap really does is enable the engine when working hard to exceed 212F for short periods without boiling over. It sounds like yours is working.
luck,
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Oh, I see that the 2010 is a gasser. There is one more thing that will cause them to run hot. I doubt this is the problem, but it could be. Especially so if someone has messed with the distributor and moved it too far retarded (in the direction of the distributor cap's rotation = retarded). If so, get a timing gun and read the manual. There is a port where you can set the timing visually.

OR...also simply check the distributor points. If the cam follower and points themselves have worn and are no longer opening to their normal 0.015 full opening that will also ****** the timing. That is easily fixed. You can easily adjust the points with a screwdriver so that they open about the thickness of a matchbook cover - use an actual cover or feeler gauge - and that will be close enough.

An engine with retarded timing will start easily, idle smoothly, not develop full HP at higher RPMs, and will overheat - but usually not overheat dramatically. It takes a while.

Above all, while you are diagnosing and fixing this problem take care NOT to overheat the engine for any high heat or long time. In other words, don't "just use it and hope it fixes itself." Overheating is how almost all old engines are ruined. If they don't overheat and have some sort of oil in them they will last forever.
rScotty

 

[Tbone07]

Oh, I see that the 2010 is a gasser. There is one more thing that will cause them to run hot. I doubt this is the problem, but it could be. Especially so if someone has messed with the distributor and moved it too far retarded (in the direction of the distributor cap's rotation = retarded). If so, get a timing gun and read the manual. There is a port where you can set the timing visually.

OR...also simply check the distributor points. If the cam follower and points themselves have worn and are no longer opening to their normal 0.015 full opening that will also ****** the timing. That is easily fixed. You can easily adjust the points with a screwdriver so that they open about the thickness of a matchbook cover - use an actual cover or feeler gauge - and that will be close enough.

An engine with retarded timing will start easily, idle smoothly, not develop full HP at higher RPMs, and will overheat - but usually not overheat dramatically. It takes a while.

Above all, while you are diagnosing and fixing this problem take care NOT to overheat the engine for any high heat or long time. In other words, don't "just use it and hope it fixes itself." Overheating is how almost all old engines are ruined. If they don't overheat and have some sort of oil in them they will last forever.
rScotty

Awesome thank you for all this advice. I rebuilt the whole distributor, plugs, wires, points, condenser, etc. I'll double-check my timing.

I use a garden hose spraying from the inside next to the fan forward. Lots of dish soap and a soft brush. It's easy to get the outside of the fins looking like new. A pressure washer could bend those fins & cause all kinds of problems.

If it's an old JD radiator it's worth saving and rebuilding. See if there is a radiator shop locally who does that kind of work. It takes a real craftsman to take one apart, clean it, and put it back together but it will be better than anything you can buy.

If that doesn't sound good to you, I've used Prestone Radiator Flush. It's an acid in crystalline form that you put in the radiator for 15 minutes and then flush again and again with a garden hose for an hour.... If done correctly it is as good as a rebuild. Incorrectly means you just bought a radiator.

To check if the OEM gauge and thermostat is working correctly you can simply run it without the radiator cap. Check the water temperature with a candy thermometer. When idleing & not working hard, the engine thermostat should keep it between 190 and 200F so it is well below boiling and the cap is not necessary. If it climbs past 205 shut it down and replace the thermostat and do the radiator cleaning inside and out as discussed. I've seen leaky water pumps, but never seen a water pump fail to move sufficient water. It was always something else. If the thermostat and cap are working right, most engines will do a density thermocycle circulation at idle enough to keep below boiling even without a water pump rotating at all.

To check a thermostat take it out, read the degrees printed on the top, and put it in a full pan of hot water along with a candy thermometer. It should open up at about 190 to 200 degrees. If it doesn't open until 220 there is your problem.

All the pressure cap really does is enable the engine when working hard to exceed 212F for short periods without boiling over. It sounds like yours is working.
luck,
rScotty

Ya I know this is definitely OLD OLD coolant. I'll drain the whole radiator and block and re-test with water and dish detergent this weekend.

To my knowledge it's the original Deere radiator. And I know a local guy who restores old radiators that can rebuild if necessary.

The pressure cap is definitely letting coolant by, and out the overflow. The temp gauge is halfway between "N" and "H". So I don't think it's boiling. I have an infrared thermometer I can check temps of the water entering and exiting the radiator.

I'll know more this weekend. Thanks everybody.

 

[Tbone07]

I believe he needs both actually, just blowing out the radiator externally without a pressure water flush won't dislodge all the crap and I bet there is a load of junk on the inside as well probably from not renewing the antifreeze in a timely manner. I change and flush my tractor cooling systems every 2 years. Drain the coolant, replace with fresh tap water and add a non sudsing detergent and run them until at operating temp (t'stat open fully) and run them an additional 30 minutes. Drain and flush again with clear tap water and add a mixture of 50 percent ethylene glycol and water. My tractors manufacturer (Kubota) recommends old style AF. When I refill them I also add DCA4 as it prevents the coolant from deteriorating. The OP's comment about the temperature slowly rising tells me the rad is not transferring heat properly.

It's clean from the outside I promise you that. I painfully went through every single fin and blew it out with compressed air, checking with a flashlight.

But you're right I absolutely need to flush the radiator multiple times and recheck. God only knows when it was last flushed.

Thanks for the help