slowrev
Elite Member
In this country your property "rights" can be circumvented for a variety of reasons. A new road or gummit building or various commercial ventures that the gummit is interested in.
1st Mich. Wolverine Spotted in 200 Years!
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slowrev
Elite Member
Just one other thought on this subject.
I lived in FL for about 8 years. Glad to be back in the country, but that is another story. Anyway, down in FL the state sprayed Malathion on a large portion of the state, subdivisions and all to control Medflys, which is a commercial concern to the Orange industry. This also pretty well wiped out honeybees, wild and domestic. Polluted my pool and ate some paint up on my car. The gummit said too bad we are not responsible for anything! Also they can come on your property without permission to cut your citrus trees if they are suspected of being infected with citrus canker. The gummit can do what it wants and does it sometimes for big business.
I lived in FL for about 8 years. Glad to be back in the country, but that is another story. Anyway, down in FL the state sprayed Malathion on a large portion of the state, subdivisions and all to control Medflys, which is a commercial concern to the Orange industry. This also pretty well wiped out honeybees, wild and domestic. Polluted my pool and ate some paint up on my car. The gummit said too bad we are not responsible for anything! Also they can come on your property without permission to cut your citrus trees if they are suspected of being infected with citrus canker. The gummit can do what it wants and does it sometimes for big business.
<font color="blue">In this country your property "rights" can be circumvented for a variety of reasons. A new road or gummit building or various commercial ventures that the gummit is interested in. </font>
Yes, I think everyone here understands the concept of "eminent domain."
The issue at hand however is the concept of frivolous "wildlife protectionism" because someone saw a "long lost" critter in some area where it hasn't been observed (officially) before or in a long time and how it can lead to property rights being circumvented.
This can KILL the independent rancher or farmer - not just the "commercial ventures" you complain about. (I've seen it happen.) It's not all about just protecting "big business" as you imply.
Yes, I think everyone here understands the concept of "eminent domain."
The issue at hand however is the concept of frivolous "wildlife protectionism" because someone saw a "long lost" critter in some area where it hasn't been observed (officially) before or in a long time and how it can lead to property rights being circumvented.
This can KILL the independent rancher or farmer - not just the "commercial ventures" you complain about. (I've seen it happen.) It's not all about just protecting "big business" as you imply.
slowrev
Elite Member
No it is not just about protecting big businesses. I am not a PETA type but realize that there is value in taking "reasonable" action to protect some wilderness/animals, and the environment. If we don't do some conservation we are exterminating ourselves as a species in the long run.
I do think that the re-introduction of species into areas no longer suitable for them because of mans encrochment is stupid and unrealistic.
I do think that the re-introduction of species into areas no longer suitable for them because of mans encrochment is stupid and unrealistic.
Hambone
Platinum Member
<font color="red"> I am not a PETA type </font>
Which on People Eating Tasty Animals or the other?
Which on People Eating Tasty Animals or the other?
slowrev
Elite Member
OH I am the People Eating Tasy Animals type fer sure /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<font color="blue">there is value in taking "reasonable" action to protect some wilderness/animals </font>
The problem comes in the definition of "reasonable."
If you owned a large ranch and relied on it for your livelihood for a number of years and then the government came in because of some tree-hugger types saying you could no longer run cattle because you are "endangering" some "newly found" critter, (which, BTW, would mean that in addition to not being able to ranch anymore, your property value drops like a stone because now the land has lost any commercial value too), I suspect your definition of "reasonable" would change.
It's easy to be brave and have ideals when it isn't your money and livelihood on the line...
The problem comes in the definition of "reasonable."
If you owned a large ranch and relied on it for your livelihood for a number of years and then the government came in because of some tree-hugger types saying you could no longer run cattle because you are "endangering" some "newly found" critter, (which, BTW, would mean that in addition to not being able to ranch anymore, your property value drops like a stone because now the land has lost any commercial value too), I suspect your definition of "reasonable" would change.
It's easy to be brave and have ideals when it isn't your money and livelihood on the line...
BillG_in_TX
Veteran Member
Here's an article concerning the issue of expanding the Balcones Canyonlands National Wildlife Refuge.
An excerpt from the article:
"Although the Fish and Wildlife Service’s official document emphatically states that the land will be purchased at 'fair market values' only from 'willing sellers' ... market values are automatically reduced when an area is designated as a proposed wildlife refuge. At the same time, it sets in motion a situation that makes landowners want to sell, simply to get out from under the restrictions that inevitably come with this type of federal designation.
... we believe there is in reality, no ‘fair market’ and no ‘willing seller’ in this situation."
As far as I'm concerned, the Golden Cheeked Warbler can keep his distance from my property.
An excerpt from the article:
"Although the Fish and Wildlife Service’s official document emphatically states that the land will be purchased at 'fair market values' only from 'willing sellers' ... market values are automatically reduced when an area is designated as a proposed wildlife refuge. At the same time, it sets in motion a situation that makes landowners want to sell, simply to get out from under the restrictions that inevitably come with this type of federal designation.
... we believe there is in reality, no ‘fair market’ and no ‘willing seller’ in this situation."
As far as I'm concerned, the Golden Cheeked Warbler can keep his distance from my property.
slowrev
Elite Member
I think that the current situation is a result of past inactions. However I will just abandon this topic and say kill all of the bees and have no pollenation of your crops, kill all the birds and have more pests eating your crops, use poision to compensate and wind up drinking poision water. Man has gone beyond a balance point with nature an we will pay in the long run. All I am saying on this subject.
slowrev -
Please point out where ANYONE said every other living thing on earth should be killed off. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
All I ever did was point out the independent landowner can loose his livlihood and ability to do what he wants with property HE paid for due to the actions of zealots and the government. Sorry you can't handle the truth and choose to make up things I supposedly said/meant.
It's painfully obvious to me you have no real experince in this area, nor that you work regularly with wildlife biologists to improve wildlife habitat as I do. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif (Never saw that one coming, huh?)
I'd suggest you be a little more careful before you think you've got me "pegged" next time.
Please point out where ANYONE said every other living thing on earth should be killed off. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
All I ever did was point out the independent landowner can loose his livlihood and ability to do what he wants with property HE paid for due to the actions of zealots and the government. Sorry you can't handle the truth and choose to make up things I supposedly said/meant.
It's painfully obvious to me you have no real experince in this area, nor that you work regularly with wildlife biologists to improve wildlife habitat as I do. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif (Never saw that one coming, huh?)
I'd suggest you be a little more careful before you think you've got me "pegged" next time.