1st tractor! any suggestions

[dragoneggs]

This is a ridiculous post, and terrible advice for a newbie. Having a rollover structure doesn't make you think you're safer it makes you safer....period. There is NO way to work around that. Rollovers are the #1 cause of tractor fatalities, and the overwhelming majority of them are on tractors without a ROPS. Thousands of dead farmers who knew what they were doing are proof that your theory is wrong, and there's no need to derail this thread by starting an argument about something as basic as safety. Sure, some modern safety measures are a bit much, but things like ROPS don't fall into that category.

Amen!

 

[Ultradog MN]

This is a ridiculous post, and terrible advice for a newbie.

Having a rollover structure doesn't make you think you're safer it makes you safer....period. There is NO way to work around that. Rollovers are the #1 cause of tractor fatalities, and the overwhelming majority of them are on tractors without a ROPS.

Thousands of dead farmers who knew what they were doing are proof that your theory is wrong, and there's no need to derail this thread by starting an argument about something as basic as safety. Sure, some modern safety measures are a bit much, but things like ROPS don't fall into that category.

LOL,
And you'd probably be one of those who would mandate ROPS and seat belts on ALL tractors too I'll bet.
That makes you a safety what?
Some people wake up and wonder what they're going to worry about today. And then they go around warning everyone that they should worry too.
Not me.
I don't worry. I pay attention instead.
Paying attention is how millions of farmers spent billions of hours on non nanny state tractors and stayed alive.
Old tractors are safe enough and have an excellent record for safety.
Some people die on them. Some people die of strokes from worry. Those deaths just don't make the news.
I have been around these forums for a long time and been around tractors much longer. I will continue to give advice to all comers and debunk silly myths as I see fit, even if that gets the hens to cluck.

Viewing profile - Yesterday's Tractors

 

[MESSMAKER]

LOL,
And you'd probably be one of those who would mandate ROPS and seat belts on ALL tractors too I'll bet.
That makes you a safety what?
Some people wake up and wonder what they're going to worry about today. And then they go around warning everyone that they should worry too.
Not me.
I don't worry. I pay attention instead.
Paying attention is how millions of farmers spent billions of hours on non nanny state tractors and stayed alive.
Old tractors are safe enough and have an excellent record for safety.
Some people die on them. Some people die of strokes from worry. Those deaths just don't make the news.
I have been around these forums for a long time and been around tractors much longer. I will continue to give advice to all comers and debunk silly myths as I see fit, even if that gets the hens to cluck.

Viewing profile - Yesterday's Tractors

I hear what you are saying. I don't always wear my seat belt. You can pay attention and just avoid any dangerous situation. I do commercial cutting and I run into a dangerous situation every couple of days. Sometimes I avoid it. Sometimes I have to figure out a way. That is when I am glad to have ROPS and a belt. On occasion, I have wished for an ejection seat. I think that the first tractor is a bit of a learning situation. That is just a fact of life.

 

[GManBart]

LOL,
And you'd probably be one of those who would mandate ROPS and seat belts on ALL tractors too I'll bet.
That makes you a safety what?
Some people wake up and wonder what they're going to worry about today. And then they go around warning everyone that they should worry too.
Not me.
I don't worry. I pay attention instead.
Paying attention is how millions of farmers spent billions of hours on non nanny state tractors and stayed alive.
Old tractors are safe enough and have an excellent record for safety.
Some people die on them. Some people die of strokes from worry. Those deaths just don't make the news.
I have been around these forums for a long time and been around tractors much longer. I will continue to give advice to all comers and debunk silly myths as I see fit, even if that gets the hens to cluck.

I'm not saying all tractors need to have ROPS or seat belts, or any of the other exaggerations you're posting. Being smart doesn't mean worrying, or any of the other stuff you're suggesting.

You can pay attention all you want, be the best tractor operator on the planet and still get killed. Thousands of farmers, who knew what they were doing, have died in tractor accidents, most of them rollovers. What stops most rollover deaths? A ROPS....simple.

Many of those dead farmers wouldn't have died during rollovers if they had a machine with a ROPS. This simply isn't in question. Just because they would have died from some other cause doesn't mean they wouldn't have been better off surviving their rollover incident.

Further, this thread isn't about someone who grew up running tractors, it's about someone buying their first tractor without all that experience behind them.

Myths? You're going to say that a tractor with a ROPS isn't safer than a tractor without a ROPS? Seriously?

National Ag Safety Database - Statistics and Epidemiology of Tractor Fatalities - A Historical Perspective

"Farm tractors have historically been identified as the leading source of work-related farming deaths in the U.S. While data from the National Safety Council show that tractor-related deaths and fatality rates have decreased since 1969, current surveillance data indicate that an average of 218 farmers and farmworkers die annually from tractor-related injuries. Of these deaths, approximately 120 are associated with tractor overturns. Most of these deaths occur to tractor operators 65 years of age and older. Roll-over Protective Structures (ROPS) have been identified as the single best method of preventing tractor overturn-related deaths, yet only 38% of all tractors used on farms in the U.S. were equipped with ROPS in 1993. A major issue associated with increasing the use of ROPS on farm tractors is the cost of retrofitting ROPS on older tractors. The average cost to retrofit tractors with ROPS in the U.S. was estimated at $937, and a cost of at least $4 billion nationally in 1993.

Curiously, farmers aged 65 and older are the most common victims, and those are folks with tons of experience a newbie doesn't have to rely on.

Maybe you don't have anybody to take care of, or anybody who wants you to stick around for a while, but lots of us do. If making a simple choice to buy a tractor with a ROPS gives me a better chance of being around to take care of my family, I think that's a responsible, intelligent thing to do. The fact is, a ROPS will give anyone a better chance of surviving an incident regardless of how it happens....if we make a mistake, if something breaks, or if the ground opens up and swallows a tire. That is far from being a nanny state, it's just being smart.

The ironic thing is you're pointing a finger at me, and I posted links to two older tractors that don't have ROPS, so I'm far from being a safety police, nanny state person....missed that huh?

 

[Ultradog MN]

I'm not saying all tractors ....missed that huh?

You can have your rops. You can advocate for rops.
It doesn't bother me.
For what I do, if I had rops, I couldn't do it.
When the topic comes up where a fellow asks if he should buy this tractor or that tractor and someone posts a bunch of stuff about not buying it because it doesn't have all the modern safety features I'll voice my opinion that he doesn't need all that darned stuff if he keeps his wits about him.
Simple eh?

 

[GManBart]

You can have your rops. You can advocate for rops.
When the topic comes up where a fellow asks if he should buy this tractor or that tractor and someone posts a bunch of stuff about not buying it because it doesn't have all the modern safety features I'll voice my opinion that he doesn't need all that darned stuff if he keeps his wits about him.

It has nothing to do with having your wits about you....that's a huge failure of logic.

First off, you're talking about someone with NO experience, so they don't really know what is, or isn't dangerous yet.

Second, having your wits about you doesn't do anything to protect against things you can't see or know...like mechanical failures, or a hole in the ground that you can't see, or that just opens up.

ROPS protects you against all of those things..what you don't know, can't know, can't see, or can't foresee.

Then again, only 1 in 10 tractor operators will ever suffer a rollover....

Lots of dead farmers didn't think they needed ROPS either...so hey, at least the dead guys agree with you!

 

[Ultradog MN]

It has nothing to do with...at least the dead guys agree with you!

In my opinion...
It is your thinking that makes cities make long range plans where everyone lives on a light rail line and lives in high density housing because it makes environmental sense to do it that way.
It the same mentality that has forced motorcyclists in most states to wear helmets.
It's the thinking that wants to abolish the 2nd amendment.
It's the mentality that makes cities pass ordinances where kids have to wear helmets on bicycles and soon everybody will have to. It what's caused our automobiles and tractors to skyrocket in price because of all the safety features they have to have and the black boxes in them now that record the vehicle's actions like the airplanes have.
It's why our military can't do it's job because someone might get hurt, why the cops in Baltimore were told to stand down for the same reason, why highways - after adjusting for inflation - cost twice as much per mile than it did in the 60s, why US industry can't compete and there are few jobs left, why everyone is shackeled with more and more restrictive EPA legislation, why the collective has become more important than individual liberty, why the US is no longer first in the world in personal freedom.
Every new law is passed because "if it will save one life..."
You can live that way if you like.
You can jump on your pulpit and quote studies and statistics if you wish.
I'm not saying you are wrong.
Not going to criticize you for using rops and stuff.
But I'm not buying in to it.
I'm not going to live that way.
I'm going to live free or die.
I'm going to be the last man in the US to go without rops. And when the second or third or tenth to the last man comes here asking questions I'm gonna tell him what I think.
Not going to go off on a long, pointless argument about it with everybody. Just going to say what I think.
I don't care if he's a newbie or an old hand.
I'm not going to agree with the collective and tell him to avoid an old tractor because it doesn't have safety features.
I'm going to tell him to buy it because it will do a lot of work for him. And I'll tell him he doesn't need rops either if he keeps his wits about him.
Like his dad or grand dad and millions of other men did.
You've said your piece, as have I.
I doubt further discussion is going to change any hearts or minds on the matter.
Let's not let this go like the cartoon you see floating around the net.
OK?

 

[MHarryE]

Look down to the safety section, recent thread. Grandpa giving grandson ride in skid steer just moving some blocks, grandson pitched out, killed. In thread is follow up by person who lost cousin, his best buddy, how unknown but body found under his rolled Ford 8N (think those tractors killed the most farmers per tractor built). Dame family, brother of boy killed in common Ford rollover, was riding with his grandpa brush hogging when he fell off and was killed by the brush hog.

Shortly after I started my career, initially working on combine design, all of us engineers were called into a conference room to brainstorm any idea how to defend a farmer's accidental death. Combining with his 5 year old daughter as a passenger, he plugged the feeder. Leaving his daughter in the seat and the engine running, he got into the header and dug out the plug. Daughter started playing with the controls, engaged the header and combined her father, well, at least until he plugged the feeder. We all said that there was no way we could defend this. In front of jury, pictures, description of how 5 year old accidentally kills her father, lose, lose. Settle out of court. A few years later along comes feed reverses to back out plugs.

Safety czars dictate items such as ROPS? In your dreams. Farmers and construction workers killing themselves and their families suing manufacturers dictated ROPS. Ever notice when auto companies are in the news for being pointed out for a safety defect they always state that they meet all safety regulations? Regulations are their out. Person kills them-self, family sues, jury is sympathetic, finds for family, under appeal judge finds product meet safety standard but operator made an error in judgement, too bad, jury overruled. Typical personal example - operator killed in rollover accident. Fly out to investigate before dust has settled. First glance - seat belt is wrapped around ROPS post so it is out of drivers way. Document with pictures, police as witnesses. Dealers people right machine, I get on, turn key, engine starts, I drive it away. Tragedy, young man drives too close to road edge, shoulder gives way, and he loses his life.

 

[dragoneggs]

Not going to go off on a long, pointless argument about it with everybody.

You're not? :laughing:

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I agree with a lot of what UltraDog says, as I hate living in the Nanny State that exists today. But things like ROPS (when used with a seatbelt) can prevent needless tragedies. So, given the choice (and all else being equal) I'd certainly buy a ROPS tractor over a non-ROPS tractor.

This argument reminds me of the story of two preachers arguing over some theological point. One said, "Brother, let's not argue about it. The important thing is that we are both doing God's work - you in your way, and I in His."