2 acres - what do you recommend?

smartguyz · Jun 7, 2003

Gentlemen - I've been reading TBN for months now, and was all ready to plunk down money on either a Deere or Kubota. This Power-Trac group has completely altered my search. I am now seriously considering buying a PT, depite the limitations of not being able to have a dealer near by, or any help with financing.

Here's my scenario. I have 2 acres, 2/3 of which is heavily landscaped, and the rest is forested. The land is on a slope, which is perhaps 15% grade in some areas. In order to get to much of the landscaped area, I need to run over about 9000SF of fine grass. Here's what I need to do:

- mow and maintain the 9000SF grass (mow, fertilize, aerate, thatch, etc.)
- bring in 65-80 Yards of mulch and chips every couple of years to spread around the yard.
- Bush Hog portions of the forest to create paths and a picnic and mini-camp area.
- We have a small garden, only around 20x20 for now, but could be expanded a lot.
- Planning to put in a small fruit orchard, perhaps 10-20 trees.

Which PT would you recommend and why? Can you share your experiences with your PT? Especially:

- reliability
- parts
- after sale service
- stability on sloped surfaces
- What attachments you find useful or would recommend.

- Could I get away with something as small as the PT180?
- What is the major difference between the "H" and the "T8" class? The weight looks almost identical. Is there a reason why the H can't take things like the edging wheel or the giant dump cart (35 cu ft?).

If you guys can comment vs. a Kubota BX2200, that would be fine, too.

Sincerely,
Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jun 7, 2003

The PT is probably great machine, but I would only use it at night....

that thing is butt-ugly /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But then again I have an 80lb. Bulldog and he's so butt-ugly he's actually cute.

They do look like they would be great on slopes with their squat wide stance. That goes for the PT and the Bulldog!

Anonymous Poster · Jun 8, 2003

Rob,
My property is similar to yours (2 acres with approx. 1/3 woods). I've had a PT-422 for about six months and consider it the best all around tractor I could have bought for my uses. The mower does a good job and is fast. I can now mow the yard in just over 1/2 the time I could before with a 14hp Ingersoll garden tractor. Using the bucket I've been able to move tons of dirt, sand, and gravel quickly and easily and without damaging the yard. As far as your specific questions:
Reliability, Parts and Service - I have over 100 hours of fairly hard use on mine and have experienced one manufacturing "issue" and two minor part failures. I received one of the units with the "bad" ignition coils in the Robin engine. During my first month of ownership, and after a number of calls to Power Trac and Robin of America, they eventually determined the cause of the problem and provided replacement coils which I installed myself. The two minor part failures consisted of a fan thermal relay that stopped cycling the fan on and an hour meter that got water in it and stopped functioning. In both of these cases I simply called the folks at PT, they walked me through a quick check to verify the problem, and immediately sent a replacement part.

Overall opinion is that while the reliability is not perfect, I would judge it as good, and the phone support and replacement part support has been very good.

Stability on slopes - While the steepest slope on my property is probably less than 15 degrees, the stability is excellent. I believe PT rates the 400 series for a 20 degree slope. While stability on your 15 degree slope shouldn't be an issue, the power available from the 180 and 422 might be. Based on personal experience and what I've read on this site, mowing up hills is a considerable power drain on these machines. The 422 will mow a 15 degree slope but you'd probably need to limit yourself to the 48" mower and expect to reduce your speed when going up the hill. I'd be a little concerned that the 180 wouldn't do a satisfactory job mowing up that steep of an incline.

Recommended attachments - I have the 48" mower, the snow blade, the two buckets, the mini-hoe, and the pallet forks. I've used all of them quite frequently. In particular I have been very impressed with the mini-hoe. I can't imagine having done all the landscaping I've done this spring without it. I think you would find it very useful for planting your small orchard. Note that because the mini-hoe uses the auxiliary hydraulics to control the bucket curl, you can't get use one on the PT-180.

As far as the difference between the H (homeowner) and T8 class, the only difference between the 422 and 425 when I bought mine was the engine. That meant that any attachment that could be used on the 425 could also be used on the 422. They have upgraded the 425's wheel motors and lift height in this year's model. The improved wheel motors apparently provide more torque at the expense of some top end speed. I think that the improved wheel motors and kohler engine would make me seriously consider the 425 over the 422 if I was buying today, but at the time I bought mine I couldn't justify the price differential for 3 hp.

There are other's on this board that provide you a better comparison against the Kubota BX 2200. There are some previous posts that discuss the same comparison. You may want to search for them.

Good luck in your tractor shopping.
Pat

MossRoad · Jun 8, 2003

Welcome to the Power Trac discussion!

The Powerr Trac will be very gentle on your lawn. You can be at a complete stop and trun the wheel lock to lock and all 4 wheels roll at different rates and it leaves no scuff marks. Completely amazing.

Of coure, if you travel over the same path a hundred times you will get, well, a path. But you'd get the same thing walking the same path as well.

The 60" mower works great on my PT425. Power Trac recommended the 48" mower for the 422 and 418 series when I was looking. They said the extra HP is needed for the larger deck. If you have really steep hills they may recommend the 48" for the 425 as well, but I'm not sure. I know the limitation on slope for the 425 is due to the Kohler oiling system is not rated for aerobatics /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I think it is 20 degrees, which is plenty steep enough to produce the pucker factor.

Moving mass amount of mulch is no problem with the large bucket.

The 48" brush hog is awsome.

I dont' know about their tiller, but it looks pretty impressive.

I have about 20 fruit trees and I mow around(and under) them with ease.

If I had the budget, I'd go with the 425. Hope this helps.

davesisk · Jun 8, 2003

( Note that because the mini-hoe uses the auxiliary hydraulics to control the bucket curl, you can't get use one on the PT-180.
)

Just one quick note on this...if you add a selector valve to the PT-180, then you could control a third cylinder (as on the mini-hoe, grapple bucket, etc.). See the thread on "Electric Selector Valve". Adding an electric selector valve will run you about $300 (maybe up to $400) if you do it yourself, but $4500 + $400 is still less than $6500 (PT-422) or $8500 (PT-425). That said, base your decision on the engine HP moreso than this short-coming, because there's a way around it!

Dave

smartguyz · Jun 8, 2003

Hi guys -

I am suitably impressed by the amount of knowledge you guys have of these machines! OK - it's difficult to determine how to 'compare HP needs', since we're talking about running a hydraulic pump, not a PTO. How does one go about determining what kind of 'PTO equivalent' power is available? The 180, 422, and 425 all are within a few lbs of each other, so I'm assuming they are built the same (e.g. with same gauge materials, etc?) One item would be the manual vs. hydraulic hitch (is that a big deal?) and the extra valve, not to mention ROP/canopy, etc, but what other info will help me make a comparison?

Has anyone actually done A-B comparisons vs. a subcompact (since that's what the weight and capabilities would put it up against - like a Deere 2210 or a Kubota BX2200)?

-Rob

MossRoad · Jun 9, 2003

How does one go about determining what kind of 'PTO equivalent' power is available? 

There is a mathematical formula that I can't remember. A search could probably find it. However, not to sound rude or anything like that, I got hung up on hydraulic power VS PTO shaft power for quite a while. I also got sucked into the HYDRO VS GEAR quagmire for a while. What I eventually came upon was this: The PT425 can run a 48" brush hog. It can run a 60" finish mower. It can run a power tiller, power brush, power rake and a whole lot more. I really don't care how that equates to PTO HP as long as it does it and does it well. Again, please don't take this as me being rude. It is just how I feel about the Power Trac after owning it for a year and a half. It is a tool that works. It doesn't look like dad's tractor, but it is a tool that works. Hope this helps. I went through the same thought process as anyone else trying to decide what type of machine is best for them. This one just happened to fit my needs best. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, there is the question of a gas engine or a diesel engine. The diesel engine develops its torque at a lower RPM. The gas powered PT400 series develops its torque at a much higher RPM. They are very loud and the engine will almost definately not last as long as a diesel. On the other hand, the gas engine costs alot less to replace if there is a catostrophic failure, it runs on the same oil type as the hydraulics and it uses the same gas that your car, lawn mower, weed eater, etc... so you don't have extra fluids to store or worry about. And any good small engine shop can repair it or get you parts.

The hydraulically operated quick hitch as just plain a work of art. I have limited storage space and have to stack my implements in a tight space. I can unload my garage of all my implements(5 or 6) in just a few minutes without ever leaving the seat. It is great.

 Has anyone actually done A-B comparisons vs. a subcompact (since that's what the weight and capabilities would put it up against - like a Deere 2210 or a Kubota BX2200)? 

Here's a link to a comparrison that I did about 2 years ago when I was shopping for tractors.

I think all of the tractors have their place and it is hard to compare apples to apples. The Power Trac is not an agricultural based machine as conventional CUTS are(some might not even call it a tractor). The BX is not a CUT. It is a sub compact that started a trend in CUTs. The BX is an awsome machine. I really looked at them hard. I just got hooked on the Power Trac's quick attach, front mounted implements, compact size, tank tough constuction, full time 4 wheel drive, simple gas engine and minimal controls. The PT425 is really a landscaper's dream for speed and versatility. And, after all, I am a land owner with a landscape, not a farmer with a farm( I hearby take credit for that phrase /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). If I had to do more agricultural work, I would have gone with a more conventional tractor.

My best advice would be to decide what jobs you have to do today and in the future. What types of implements are you going to need to do those jobs and what type of tractor would run those implements the best. Then test drive the heck out of as many makes and models as you can. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Again, I hope this helps in your decision making process. Please keep asking questions.

David G.

davesisk · Jun 9, 2003

( the manual vs. hydraulic hitch (is that a big deal?)
-Rob )

My old model has a 3-pin attachment mechanism (looks just a little bit like a 3PH) rather than the newer hydraulic quick attach (or even the manual quick attach on the 180). The advantage of the hydraulic quick attach is that you can change implements very quickly, even without leaving the tractor seat unless the attachment uses the hydraulic PTO. Pretty cool, I'd love to have that on my old one!

HTH,
Dave

Charlie_Iliff · Jun 9, 2003

If I had to do more agricultural work, I would have gone with a more conventional tractor.


I have to do a fair amount of agricultural work, primarily pasture mowing and fence work, plus general moving stuff around. We have several conventional tractors that I simply no longer use. Others on the farm do, because I keep my Power Trac away from them. It is so versatile that I seldom have a job that a conventional tractor could do better. (We don't do any till type crops, and no longer get in hay. The PT probably wouldn't shine in those areas absent some implement modification, but with a 1460 and a smoke wrench ... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)
So far, I've not seen a report of someone getting rid of a Power Trac to get a conventional CUT. If anyone is considering it, post a note here. There are plenty of people looking for used PTs.

Sedgewood · Jun 9, 2003

So far, I've not seen a report of someone getting rid of a Power Trac to get a conventional CUT 

Now there's a TRUE test of the Power Trac concept!

(Last time I went to start my IH484 the battery was dead)

Sedgewood