2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix?

   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #21  
thanks for that Rat
yep the tree huggers seem to have a lot of say now days i'd side with them about SOME 2 strokes being smokey but one running the right mix and well tuned don't smoke that much the honda trimmer ya talking about does it rev as hard as a 2 stroke? just thinking of a saw with a cutting range of 9000+rpm only thing with a 4 stroke what happens if you turn it on it's side how is the oil pick up going to work
catch ya
JD Kid
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #22  
Lemme toss in a few grenades here.....

It is always best to follow the manu recommended mix. I have had older stuff that ran 16:1!!!

The recommended mix is based on the bearing type of the motor, the cooling eficiency of whatever it has, and the speed of operation. Small tiny engines have no torque therefore must run at ridiculous speeds to make any power.

Use a 2 cycle oil that meets the latest TCW rating. Yes, it is a rating primarily made up for boats, but it is the ONLY rating, ie., there was never a quality/grading system in place for other 2cy utility motors so they adopted it. But dont kid yourself about marine motors, they make power in the 6000-6500rpm ranges, not 4000 and since 1) metal to water heat transfer is far more efficient than metal to air and 2) boats at times have a few million acre feet of water below them then the choice to liquid cool was simple. Stick your hand under the relief stream - thats hot water coming out. That 1.5L outboard is making over 200hp, thats a lot of heat.

And keep this in mind, 2 cy oil does not burn. Let me repeat, 2 cy oil does not burn.

did we get that? 2 cy oil does not burn. It does however partially oxidize and what comes out is black gooey 'carbon' that clogs your transfer ports and fouls the plugs. The latest 2cy TCW specs are designed to stay liquid or vaporous longer to exit the motor completely and what compounds do come out, are supposed to more readily decompose in the environment.

If you are carboning up, then some or all of the following is true:

1) incorrect (heavy) mix (either by mixing gas, or bad injectors)
2) clogged air filter
3) too large a main jet or too open of a pilot jet setting at idle
4) prolonged low speed operation or lugging the motor
5) weak spark- you name the cause

2cy motors have a narrow powerband and are designed to last there all day long. as little as 20%rpm less than rated power would be considered lugging. At the proper high rpms the following is true:

1) max efficiency is acheived as the expansion chambers are fixed in size an in the case of utility motors are fixed atthe power peak.

2) extra heat at the the piston(s) rings will cuase further expansion, giving a tighter compression seal. This will not only make better power, it will also avoid over pressurizing the case with hot gasses instead of cool air

3) extra heat at the exhaust xfer port will keep the unburned oil as a vapor/gas longer, so it exits completely

4) at max efficiency, the max amount of cooling air is brought into the case for cooling.

I would recommend as a good baseline, 50:1 for liquid cooled engines, 40:1 for air cooled engines. older 16:1 or 20, 24:1 can be run at modern 32:1 and 32 could goto 40:1.

I dont buy into the 100:1 amsoil claims. Too many scored bearings and burned reeds have resulted.

Besides, the fuel burn rate is a constant, based on what you can get TCW3-4 at vs amsoil, the cost/usage ratio does NOT favor the amsoil.
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #23  
I think I should have just got the Honda 4 cycle weed trimmer, its seems simpler. Rat...
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #24  
just to be noted. I have run a cheap "throw away" weed eater brand trimmer for 5 years (seasons)trimming 4 acres of lawn with amsoil premix and still running strong......
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #25  
Rowski - The motor on that thing probably seized up long ago. You just haven't noticed it because it's running so well. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Mark
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #26  
In fact, come to think of it, I'd have to say that's the thing I like best about synthetics. Lots of folks say it ruins stuff, and I guess I have to take their word for it - I hate to call anyone a liar. But all that ruined equipment just keeps running and running and running. And I just hate to tear something down and rebuild it when it's running so well, even if it is burnt up. I'll wait until it quits running, thank you. In the meantime, though, I'm just waiting for it to happen to something I'm using synthetic in (which is everything) so I can see what an engine or transmission ruined by synthetic looks like.

Mark
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #27  
Mark,

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #28  
Quadriver, can you help me understand why 2 cycles smoke more when run on a higher ratio of oil. Is the smoke not from the lubricating oil being incompletely burnt? I have tried Amsoil, Optimal, and the standard Husqvarna and Echo blends, and cannot say I notice any difference in performance. If I mix it to strong and add oil at a higher ratio, I get more smoke from them all. If the oil is not burnt but spewn from the exhaust, then it is no wonder they are banning them in water. Rat...
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #29  
When you say 'higher ratio of oil' I assume you mean that there is MORE oil per part of gas.....

The smoking is clear. more oil, which does not burn in an engine, results in more smoke which is of course unburnt hydrocarbons.

How much oil does it take to make smoke? well, a v8 engine, that has 1 cylinder that burns one drop each firing, will burn off its entire 5-6qt crankcase in 500 miles. Therefore when you see someone with a smoking car and they say it uses a qt every 1000 miles....its far less than a drop that the engine is burning.

If you want something done faster, increase the voltage. But dont lick the black wire.
 
   / 2 Stroke Engine Oil/Gas Mix? #30  
Interesting Quadriver, so why is it smoke and not just oil drops. Is smoke not a partially burnt hydro or is it analogous to the steam created by boiling water. I understand your point about oil mix not burning, but it makes less sense when I think about the combustion process. After all you would think that with that kind of heat even relatively non volatile oil would burn, but then, I've never given it a great deal of thought. California is cracking down on 2 strokes and it seems that sometimes what goes on here ends up becoming practiced in other states as well. I do know that even the more recent 2 strokes have become more smoke free. My Shindawa weed trimmer only smokes at start and from there its got pretty clean looking exhaust, including any residue on or around the exhaust. Thanks for the info, its been enlightening, Rat...

P.S. Remember the 2 stroke diesel that GM once made for its semi-trucks. They say you could always tell a GM truck by the sound of its 2 stroke diesel. I've only heard an old paddlewheel trencher with that engine, it had a turbo- charger on it. It was higher pitched.
 

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