2 wheel tractor options ?

[DHD]

I am in the market for a 2 wheel tractor that I can attach a snow blower head (preferably 2 stage), a field/brush mower head and possibly a finish mower head.
I like the idea of having one power unit with a variety of attachments, but my primary interest is using it for snow blowing.

I have very little knowledge of 2 wheel tractors and would appreciate any input.

The BCS and Grillo 2 wheel tractors look very solid and seem very popular, but which would be a better choice for snow blowing ?

One possible snow blowing issue that concerns me with either of the BCS or Grillo tractors is the snow blower stops, when every forward motion stops.

Would the Gravel Pro-QXT be worth looking at ?
It does not appear as solid as the older Gravely tractors I remember, and I haven't seen many reviews.

 

[js5020]

One of the negatives of the new Gravely is the cost, pretty spendy when compared to a BCS or Grillo from what I have seen. For that matter if you desire a Gravely 2 wheel hydro you might look for a used model M. It was also a Rapid rebadge but sound heavier duty than the new one? Of course you could also locate an older low hour Gravely Pro series and tidy it up a bit to make it like new. Your likely to be in a similar price range for any of the options above comparing to a new BCS or Grillo 12+hp machine less attachments..

Check out youtube, there are several vids of real life folks using the BCS and Grillo machines with all sorts of attachments to get the picture without the manufacturer "spin" on things.

As a long time Gravely owner my inclination would be to really look into a Grillo G110 if I were in the market.

 

[leonz]

The Grillo 131 with the air cooled diesel engine will provide you with plenty of power for all your needs.

The European power equipment safety standards require the snow caster to stop when the 2 wheel tractor stops.

The major negative for the BCS units is the Honda engine. Neither BCS nor Honda has seen fit to enclose the engine in a winter shroud and the engine control linkages being mounted in the open will freeze on you from the melt water when blowing snow and then you have problems with the throttle linkages.

The Two Stage Berta Snow Caster attachments are better built that the BCS snow casters but your money would be better spent on the Yamaha 32 inch track drive unit and just buy a riding lawn mower from a big box dealer as the attachments for a 2 wheel tractor can add up to a lot of money.


I suggested the Yamaha 32 inch unit simply because they are heavy and will not ride up on snow piles left by a plow
and the track drive has plenty of traction for all conditions.

If you major worry is blowing snow you would be better off going to a Yamaha snow blower dealer across the border and buying one of the new track drive Yamaha 2 stage snow casters. There is plenty of information about them on you tube and with the exchange rate being so good for the Canadian Loonie it would save you a lot of money to buy one now.

Not trying to spend your money, but both the old Yamahas and the new Yamahas with tracks have been designed for the major snows in Northern and Northwestern Japan and they are being used in Europe in the deep snows there too.

 

[DHD]

Those Yamaha snow blowers certainly are impressive.

 

[zzvyb6]

I have a 1926 Bohlens 2 wheeler (dual steel tires). Needs work (and a motor). Just dug it out of a neighbor's back yard.

 

[leonz]

Those Yamaha snow blowers certainly are impressive.

=========================================================
That is the reason I suggested the Yamahas to you.



The problem with the 2 wheel mules is that the money you spend can mushroom in huge hurry and
you could spend 15K in one sitting.


If it were me AND believe me I HAVE BEEN THERE with;the JD JUNK I have now; I would chat with
Joel at Earth Tools and go from there perhaps with a BCS 853 rather than a Grillo due to the first
cost as they are both gear drive units.

Your major job is snow removal and the self propelled Yamahas and the Berta Snow caster attachments are both top notch units
and as I said earlier Consumer Reports also said you want a self propelled snow blower for JUST snow removal and they don't
make mistakes very often.

 

[TimberXX]

I have read about people freezing cables, but hasn't seen of it myself. Upgrading to a diesel would help with this, however would be harder to start. Honda snowblowers use the same GX engine. The air intake and a plastic shroad over the throttle, choke, is different on the GX snowblowers. Maybe those accessories can be added to a tractor engine. The newer Kohler motors have a winter intake setting. How much snow are you throwing?

 

[DHD]

How much snow are you throwing?

In a typical winter season, most our of our snow storms are 8 inches or less, with one or two storms being 20" or more.
In the past few years, most storms start as snow then change to wet snow or rain.

We are looking for a walk behind tractor with snow blower attachment or walk behind snow blower to snow blow access paths and the perimeter of some out buildings and a green house.
We already have a Kubota tractor with a rear mount 64" snow blower for two driveways, 3 large apron/parking areas.
We are also using the Kubota with RM snow blower to snow blow access paths and the perimeter of the out buildings and a green house, but it's difficult to maneuver around these structures plus we end up snow blowing much more area than we need to, due to of this lack of maneuverability.

At the present time we have two snow blower operators and only the Kubota with RM snow blower.
With the addition of another snow blower, both snow blowers could be used at the same time reducing our snow clearing time.

 

[farmerboybill]

I'd say a Grillo 110 or a BCS 852 could be a good fit for your operation. The single stage blowers for these machines aren't like the one you're thinking of. They turn at 1200 rpm and can really throw snow. I have a two stage Berta blower, and it is a better performing machine, but is also a fair bit more expensive.

I used to mow my lawn with a 38" finish mower, and will warn you that they are not nearly a maneuverable or functional as a dedicated mower. First, the mower blades stop when you squeeze the clutch to reverse. Also, there are only three mowing speed options versus a variable speed belt or hydrostatic drive. Third, the machine is very long and doesn't steer like a dedicated mower. They're much better for wide area mowing, not close-in mowing around obstacles.

 

[DHD]

I'd say a Grillo 110 or a BCS 852 could be a good fit for your operation. The single stage blowers for these machines aren't like the one you're thinking of. They turn at 1200 rpm and can really throw snow. I have a two stage Berta blower, and it is a better performing machine, but is also a fair bit more expensive.

I used to mow my lawn with a 38" finish mower, and will warn you that they are not nearly a maneuverable or functional as a dedicated mower. First, the mower blades stop when you squeeze the clutch to reverse. Also, there are only three mowing speed options versus a variable speed belt or hydrostatic drive. Third, the machine is very long and doesn't steer like a dedicated mower. They're much better for wide area mowing, not close-in mowing around obstacles.

What ever snow blower unit we get, it's important to us that the snow blower still has the capability to blow snow even when the forward movement of the unit has stopped.

 

[leonz]

What ever snow blower unit we get, it's important to us that the snow blower still has the capability to blow snow even when the forward movement of the unit has stopped.

============================================================================

The first thing you should do is look at Consumer Reports to read about how they test walk behind snow blowers and how they test them.

They soak wood sawdust/shavings in ten cubic foot volumes in an actual ten cubic foot wheel barrow to the point where they are a solid mass creating the next closest thing to a heavy snow pack and dump it on their test area to see how far they throw the simulated snow pack.

I would tell you to also look at the new Yamaha snow blowers at one of the Canadian Yamaha outdoor power equipment dealers across the border as the new track drive Yamaha snow blowers will cost you less money in the purchase cost ONLY based on price as they are very powerful machines even in its smallest model of the three units offered.
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FYI

None of the walk behinds will continue to blow snow when they are stopped with the current yard equipment safety regulations for their operation in Canada or the United States.
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The New Yamaha snowblower owners in Canada are "absolutely rabid in happiness" when it comes to the new models and the track drive systems and how well they operate in all their conditions. The units are heavy just like the Berta 2 stage snow blower attachments and stay on the ground and do not suffer from "climb the snow pile itus" and they cut right through snow piles like the Berta two stage units.

The YT24EJ is $2,699.00 Canadian Loonies+tax and VAT less sales discount if available and the YS1028J is $4,299.00 Canadian Loonies+tax and VAT. The YS1028J has a completely enclosed engine compartment.

Neither of the Yamaha snow blower models offered has separate steering clutches or steering brakes but are easy to steer while the tracks are in motion as the entire weight of the snow thrower is moving while the cross auger is raised upward by the hydraulic lift to improve its turning ability.

The Honda GX gas engines will have a tendency to freeze up the control cables and then become difficult to operate as the cables and linkages become frozen. One of the forum members used scrap aluminum to cover the honda engine on his BCS with the BCS single stage snow thrower to prevent snow and ice building up on the engine linkages and cable connections on the BCS unit he has. He also added weights to the snow throwers cross auger housing to keep it from riding up on the snow piles as the single stage snow caster attachments are lighter in weight than the two stage Berta snow casters.

In my saying this, dollar for dollar the two Yamaha units will have a lower first cost and are dedicated snow removal only" machines.

If you have a secondary use for the two wheel tractor in your plans you should also examine that but as I explained if all your going to do is move snow a walk behind snow caster is the best way to do this and Consumer Reports also says this as well.

The 2 wheel tractor snow casters use all gear drive and the 2 Yamaha models now use an electomagnetic drive system for the impeller and cross auger.




The exchange rate for the american dollar has more buying power compared to the Canadian Loony and you will save money as your US dollar will go farther there.

 

[DHD]

============================================================================

The first thing you should do is look at Consumer Reports to read about how they test walk behind snow blowers and how they test them.

They soak wood sawdust/shavings in ten cubic foot volumes in an actual ten cubic foot wheel barrow to the point where they are a solid mass creating the next closest thing to a heavy snow pack and dump it on their test area to see how far they throw the simulated snow pack.

I would tell you to also look at the new Yamaha snow blowers at one of the Canadian Yamaha outdoor power equipment dealers across the border as the new track drive Yamaha snow blowers will cost you less money in the purchase cost ONLY based on price as they are very powerful machines even in its smallest model of the three units offered.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI

None of the walk behinds will continue to blow snow when they are stopped with the current yard equipment safety regulations for their operation in Canada or the United States.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Yamaha snowblower owners in Canada are "absolutely rabid in happiness" when it comes to the new models and the track drive systems and how well they operate in all their conditions. The units are heavy just like the Berta 2 stage snow blower attachments and stay on the ground and do not suffer from "climb the snow pile itus" and they cut right through snow piles like the Berta two stage units.

The YT24EJ is $2,699.00 Canadian Loonies+tax and VAT less sales discount if available and the YS1028J is $4,299.00 Canadian Loonies+tax and VAT. The YS1028J has a completely enclosed engine compartment.

Neither of the Yamaha snow blower models offered has separate steering clutches or steering brakes but are easy to steer while the tracks are in motion as the entire weight of the snow thrower is moving while the cross auger is raised upward by the hydraulic lift to improve its turning ability.

The Honda GX gas engines will have a tendency to freeze up the control cables and then become difficult to operate as the cables and linkages become frozen. One of the forum members used scrap aluminum to cover the honda engine on his BCS with the BCS single stage snow thrower to prevent snow and ice building up on the engine linkages and cable connections on the BCS unit he has. He also added weights to the snow throwers cross auger housing to keep it from riding up on the snow piles as the single stage snow caster attachments are lighter in weight than the two stage Berta snow casters.

In my saying this, dollar for dollar the two Yamaha units will have a lower first cost and are dedicated snow removal only" machines.

If you have a secondary use for the two wheel tractor in your plans you should also examine that but as I explained if all your going to do is move snow a walk behind snow caster is the best way to do this and Consumer Reports also says this as well.

The 2 wheel tractor snow casters use all gear drive and the 2 Yamaha models now use an electomagnetic drive system for the impeller and cross auger.




The exchange rate for the american dollar has more buying power compared to the Canadian Loony and you will save money as your US dollar will go farther there.

Thank you for your input, this information is very helpful.
My wife and I plan to visit a Yamaha dealer in Canada later this year.

I'm a little confused with your statement:
"FYI
None of the walk behinds will continue to blow snow when they are stopped with the current yard equipment safety regulations for their operation in Canada or the United States."

I understand BCS and Gillo walk behind tractors with snow blower attachments stop blowing snow when forward tractor movement stops, but I do believe current walk behind snow blowers have the ability to still blow snow, when the forward movement has stopped.

With any walk behind snow blower I've owned in the past, there was a control to active the wheel movement of the snow blower (usually on the left side handle bar) and a control to engage the auger/impeller (usually on the right side handle bar).
As long as the auger/impeller control is held down (right side) , the wheel movement control (left side) can be released, so forward movement of the snow blower will stop, but the auger/impeller will still turn.
When snow blowing end of driveway snow banks, we very often would use stop and go forward motion, to allow the overloaded auger and impeller to clear.

I believe newer model walk behind snow blower's still operate this same way.

In the following video there is a new Honda walk behind snow blower and at time line 0:26, the auger and impeller has been engaged (right side control) and are turning, and there is no forward movement of the snowblower until time line 0:30, when the left side control is engaged.

Honda HSS1332ATD vs 1 inches of snow! - YouTube

 

[leonz]

Save yourself a second trip unless your vacationing up yonder and look for the Yamaha Canada videos on youtube showcasing the 1028 walk behind.

 

[js5020]

I believe the design of the drivetrain is the reason the pto stops ( + or - a few regs) and I have asked a few times on the board just exactly how the pto functions in certain situations with no real answer by anyone. Basically as I understand it functions as my old basic compact tractor, main clutch engaged everything spins, disengage the main clutch everything stops, I believe they use to call it transmission drive pto, older gear drive tractors also had live pto, this feature allowed partial disengagement of the clutch to stop travel and allow the pto to keep spinning, full disengagement of the clutch stopped everything, and then there was/is independent pto where the pto operation was totally independent from the traction clutch and spun as long as the pto was engaged and was engine running. Most hydro compact tractors and current L+G equipment have some form of independent pto. Older Gravelys were independent pto they spin once the pto is engaged and engine running no matter what the traction is doing.

2 wheel "mules" (interesting description I like it) can turn into a considerable investment for sure and if your covering a fair sized area and/or your getting along in years they might not be the best tool for the tasks. Personally I have looked into replacing the old Gravely and its implements and it hit 10K quick, coupled along with the size of the area I have along with my advancing years for me personally its not the right tool. "Mules" are great tough machines but for me mowing tasks on 4 ac take them out of the picture as a main machine,,,, anymore I'll ride a 4 wheeled machine and use the "mule" for small areas not as easy to maneuver, or special infrequent tasks that would require a spendy implement for the 4 wheel machine I already have for the "mule".

Whatever you decide buy quality,, stay away from entry level machines often found at the big boxstores where price is king and quality usually takes the back seat no matter who puts their name on it.

 

[jeepcoma]

I have asked a few times on the board just exactly how the pto functions in certain situations with no real answer by anyone.

I can only speak to the G110 from experience, but here's how it works. You have a single engagement lever to control the clutch, operated by the left hand. This engages both the transmission and PTO. But, you have two independent controls for each of those. The transmission can be in a drive mode, or neutral. The PTO can be set to "on" or "off. Any combination of drive speed and PTO works.

Mowing: transmission in gear and PTO on
Stump grinding: transmission in neutral and PTO on
Plowing: transmission in gear and PTO off

If you want to keep the PTO running and disengage the transmission, you CAN shift into neutral without releasing the hand lever. (you CAN also shift gears, with a bit of practice; I don't know if this is either permissible or prohibited by the manufacturer, but it's possible to do it nice and smooth just like on a motorcycle)

So for snow blowing, you can operate it like you would on a traditional dedicated machine that has one hand control for transmission, and a second hand control for PTO. It's definitely not as nice a setup though, especially if you do it frequently. It takes a bit of gymnastics and skill to be reaching over across the unit to manipulate the transmission lever while the unit is operating - and you also lose the ability to use the brakes while doing so which would be especially important on slopes.

Another thing to consider with the 2-wheel is that you're going to have a VERY long turning radius, because of how far out front the blower is compared to where the wheels are. It's also much heavier. With my snowblower, I can always man-handle it if I'm stuck somewhere or need to move it sideways, I can push/pull/tug/lift whatever. That's impossible with the tractor.

I think the 2-wheel tractor CAN function well as a snow blowing unit, but only in certain circumstances. For MOST use cases, a dedicated snow blower is the better option.

 

[js5020]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like they have the transmission drive PTO then.