2 wire vs 1 wire flexibility

[etpm]

Hi All,
I'm still working on getting the power steering installed in my Yanmar YM2310. I finally have everything done the way I want it except for fittings and hose. I want to use re-usable fittings. And some of the fittings I want to use are only available for 2 wire hose. The power steering cylinder has 8 inches of travel and this means the two hoses attached to the cylinder must move too. The hoses will have 90 degree fittings to the cylinder. So as the cylinder moves the hoses will need to be able to curl and extend. The existing hoses on the tractor for the FEL are all 1 wire so I have an idea about how flexible it is. What I don't know is how much less flexible is the 2 wire hose. Oh, I should have said the hose is all 1/4" hose.
I would rather have the hoses come out of the steering cylinder vertically because it would put way less motion and strain on the hoses but at this time I just can't figure out a good way to route the hoses to achieve this. So, is there much difference in the flexibility of 2 wire 1/4" hose compared to 1 wire?
Thanks,
Eric

 

[aczlan]

Are you able to run the cylinder the other way so that the base and attaches to the tractor?
That might get rid of your necessity for the hoses to move significantly...

Aaron Z

 

[WranglerX]

Not quite understanding why the cylinder has to move.... In most cases I have seen the cylinder is stationary and only the "ram" moves....

 

[rScotty]

Hi All,
I'm still working on getting the power steering installed in my Yanmar YM2310. I finally have everything done the way I want it except for fittings and hose. I want to use re-usable fittings. And some of the fittings I want to use are only available for 2 wire hose. The power steering cylinder has 8 inches of travel and this means the two hoses attached to the cylinder must move too. The hoses will have 90 degree fittings to the cylinder. So as the cylinder moves the hoses will need to be able to curl and extend. The existing hoses on the tractor for the FEL are all 1 wire so I have an idea about how flexible it is. What I don't know is how much less flexible is the 2 wire hose. Oh, I should have said the hose is all 1/4" hose.
I would rather have the hoses come out of the steering cylinder vertically because it would put way less motion and strain on the hoses but at this time I just can't figure out a good way to route the hoses to achieve this. So, is there much difference in the flexibility of 2 wire 1/4" hose compared to 1 wire?
Thanks,
Eric

Some two wire is more flexible than 1 wire. Look for "HighFlex" type.

I don't think I ever asked, but sort of assumed that you were doing a Yanmar "pushme/pullme" type of drag link power steering with the valve built right into the steering cylinder. Like what Yanmar sold as an optional power steering?
Did you go through the 2015 TBN thread by Scotty Dive? He does a complete install and I believe he talked about fittings.
installing-power-steering-with-a-v-tek-loader-on-my-2020d-write-up-_-lots-of-images.345704

rScotty - the other Scotty... not Dive.

 

[etpm]

The way this setup works is that the cylinder valve is mounted on the cylinder. The drag link from the steering goes to the valve and so when the steering wheel is turned the valve is actuated. So the cylinder moves in the direction of the drag link.
Eric.

 

[etpm]

Some two wire is more flexible than 1 wire. Look for "HighFlex" type.

I don't think I ever asked, but sort of assumed that you were doing a Yanmar "pushme/pullme" type of drag link power steering with the valve built right into the steering cylinder. Like what Yanmar sold as an optional power steering?
Did you go through the 2015 TBN thread by Scotty Dive? He does a complete install and I believe he talked about fittings.
installing-power-steering-with-a-v-tek-loader-on-my-2020d-write-up-_-lots-of-images.345704

rScotty - the other Scotty... not Dive.

Yeah, I looked at that thread. Some is applicable, some is not. There are a lot of variables. I have been taking pictures and documenting my installation. When complete and working well I will post what I have done.
Eric

 

[BadDecisions]

2 wire is the most common stuff out there these days, and what I've got my rock crawler's steering system plumbed with. The hose going to the steering ram sees PLENTY of movement with the axle cycling up and down with 12" of travel, and have seen zero issues with it. Many more guys are out there running 16"+ of travel on these things. No more difficult to get it routed in there than any other common automotive power steering hose would have been.

 

[etpm]

2 wire is the most common stuff out there these days, and what I've got my rock crawler's steering system plumbed with. The hose going to the steering ram sees PLENTY of movement with the axle cycling up and down with 12" of travel, and have seen zero issues with it. Many more guys are out there running 16"+ of travel on these things. No more difficult to get it routed in there than any other common automotive power steering hose would have been.

Thank You, that was just the type of real world advice I was looking for. Now I don't need to worry.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[aczlan]

2 wire is the most common stuff out there these days, and what I've got my rock crawler's steering system plumbed with. The hose going to the steering ram sees PLENTY of movement with the axle cycling up and down with 12" of travel, and have seen zero issues with it. Many more guys are out there running 16"+ of travel on these things. No more difficult to get it routed in there than any other common automotive power steering hose would have been.

Just leave enough length that it has plenty of length to flex.

Aaron Z

 

[etpm]

Just leave enough length that it has plenty of length to flex.

Aaron

Easier said than done.
Eric

 

[LD1]

There are 3 common types of hydraulic hoses we see in basic hydraulics like tractors

R2, R16, R17

R2 is standard 2-wire braid hose. And in 1/4" it is rated ~5800psi and is 4" bend radius. (Meaning you can make an 8" loop or circle). This is the only type I have seen the reusable fittings sized for........and the hose is 0.590" outside diameter

R16 is also 2-wire braid and known as "half bend radius". For 1/4" it is rated for 5800psi also, and has a 2" bend radius. But the outside diameter is slightly smaller at 0.550" which is why they dont work for the field attachable fittings that basically thread onto the outside of the hose.

R17 is known as constant pressure hose. Both R2 and R16 have pressure ratings that get lower as hose size increases. R17 is a constant 3000psi rated hose through all sizes. It is a one wire braid on 1/2" and smaller hoses and jumps to 2 wire on 5/8" hose and larger. It is also half bend radius like the R16. For a 1/4" hose (rated at 3000psi obviously) it has an outside diameter of 0.500". So again, wont work with the field attachable fittings.

If you want the most flexible hose....sadly you have to use crimp fittings for the specific hose.

I like R16 or everything I use because its much higher working pressures in the smaller hoses that our small tractors normally use in combination with its flexibility make it better than R2

 

[etpm]

There are 3 common types of hydraulic hoses we see in basic hydraulics like tractors

R2, R16, R17

R2 is standard 2-wire braid hose. And in 1/4" it is rated ~5800psi and is 4" bend radius. (Meaning you can make an 8" loop or circle). This is the only type I have seen the reusable fittings sized for........and the hose is 0.590" outside diameter

R16 is also 2-wire braid and known as "half bend radius". For 1/4" it is rated for 5800psi also, and has a 2" bend radius. But the outside diameter is slightly smaller at 0.550" which is why they dont work for the field attachable fittings that basically thread onto the outside of the hose.

R17 is known as constant pressure hose. Both R2 and R16 have pressure ratings that get lower as hose size increases. R17 is a constant 3000psi rated hose through all sizes. It is a one wire braid on 1/2" and smaller hoses and jumps to 2 wire on 5/8" hose and larger. It is also half bend radius like the R16. For a 1/4" hose (rated at 3000psi obviously) it has an outside diameter of 0.500". So again, wont work with the field attachable fittings.

If you want the most flexible hose....sadly you have to use crimp fittings for the specific hose.

I like R16 or everything I use because its much higher working pressures in the smaller hoses that our small tractors normally use in combination with its flexibility make it better than R2

Thanks for all the great info about the different bend radii of R2, R16, and R17 hydraulic hose. The exact bends I can safely make with what hose now allows me to order the hose and fittings. So tomorrow morning I will be placing the order for all the different fittings and hoses I will need to finish this project. I have decided to have at least some of the hoses made up with crimped fittings but there are two hoses that I may want to make up myself just because of the different routing requirements. And tomorrow morning I will be able to make the decision about which hose and fittings to buy because of the info you provided about the exact bend radii of different hoses. I didn't even know about R16 and R17 hose. I had only seen R1 through R6 hose. It's unfortunate that hydraulic hoses can't be made up with simple tools. I looked but was unable to find a hand operated crimper for hydraulic hoses. Lotsa crimpers for lower pressure hoses though. If only I could borrow a hose crimper. Not very many folks have one just sitting on a shelf gathering dust though. I thought about buying a set of dies and making the rest myself but for my small job it just wouldn't be worth it. I wonder if there is a farmers co op on Whidbey Island that has a crimper available.
Thanks Again,
Eric

 

[etpm]

This post is a general Thank You to all the folks who have made posts trying to help me with the hydraulic portion of adding power steering to my tractor. Even though it is just plumbing it is not really just plumbing. All the mechanical stuff is for me as easy as pie. And even though I understand hydraulics pretty well from a theoretical viewpoint I do not know much about relief valves, flow dividers, hose bending radius limits, and etc. So the information you all have provided has enabled me to order with confidence the hose and fittings to finish this project. I live on an island and there is no place local to me that can reliably make up hydraulic hoses. About half the time the hoses they make up are bad for one reason or another and I need to take the hose back and have another hose made up. My experience is not unique. And their pricing is such that I might as well buy reusable fittings anyway, as there is only about 2 dollars difference between them crimping a fitting or me buying a reusable fitting.
Thanks Again,
Eric