200' Tower

[3Ts]

There has been some discussion in threads about cell phone towers, and the pro's and con's. I have a situation coming up with a tower that's a little different. It is "only" 200' tall and has guy wires to hold it up and is short enough that it doesn't need lights on it. So far, that's all I know for sure, more info after I meet with the guy. The following is speculation and assumptions on my part based on observing other towers. First, this is not a commercial cell tower. It is a Ham radio repeater relay that is also used for emergency services and is expected to include a cell phone repeater and a GMRS repeater. We live in a bowl so cell phone has been a problem from day one. Terrain is rolling with 40' trees so GMRS range is very short. So I have an interest in this happening. The antenna is currently up and in use a few miles away (don't know exactly where) but has to be moved. I have a spot at the other end of my property that could be set aside for it without much of an inconvenience to us. I would like to have the tower installed because of the cell & GMRS repeaters. There are still many questions I have and things I have to check on such as:

- legal liability
- Property tax implications
- Have to check with accountant to see if there's anything in personal taxes
- Permits? I expect them to be responsible for meeting all local, state, and federal requirements.
- They will have to be the ones to bring power in and have the meter in their name.
- Access - who is authorized and how to control the access
- are security cameras going to be needed? Possibly for me so I know who is on my property. I am expecting them to want 24/7/365 access and I'm ok with that as long as it's limited to the antenna area.
- just how much area is needed? How far out do the guy wires extend?
- What kind of vegetation can remain or does it need to be completely cleared? I have some large hardwood trees along an infrequent creek in the area.
- Does the ground have to be covered by a metal grid for a ground plane?
- Fencing and maintenance of the area
- Who is paying for this move? Sounds expensive. I wouldn't think a Ham club would have that kind of money.
- How long does this arrangement last and how is the agreement terminated and who pays for the removal. (Not me!)

I really want to see the tower and get an idea of just how tall it is. I know what 200 horizontal feet look like, but 200' vertical, I have no clue. ( I have 40' pines between me and the proposed tower location so I don't think I will see it.) I also want to see the existing contract that covers where the antenna is now.

Did I catch everything or do you have any suggestions or something I need to ask about?

 

[DGZRT]

My old Boss allowed one on his property and received about $2800 for rent a month . Not bad . It’s a large cell tower and has a shed right along side of it and has about a 40ft x 40 ft square 8 ft high chain link fence with barbed wire on top all the way around . I know they are allowed access 24/7. 365 for maintenance. No idea about the legal side of it or if he gets free cell service. Good luck

 

[leonz]

There has been some discussion in threads about cell phone towers, and the pro's and con's. I have a situation coming up with a tower that's a little different. It is "only" 200' tall and has guy wires to hold it up and is short enough that it doesn't need lights on it. So far, that's all I know for sure, more info after I meet with the guy. The following is speculation and assumptions on my part based on observing other towers. First, this is not a commercial cell tower. It is a Ham radio repeater relay that is also used for emergency services and is expected to include a cell phone repeater and a GMRS repeater. We live in a bowl so cell phone has been a problem from day one. Terrain is rolling with 40' trees so GMRS range is very short. So I have an interest in this happening. The antenna is currently up and in use a few miles away (don't know exactly where) but has to be moved. I have a spot at the other end of my property that could be set aside for it without much of an inconvenience to us. I would like to have the tower installed because of the cell & GMRS repeaters. There are still many questions I have and things I have to check on such as:
- legal liability

Property tax implications- lots of them

Have to check with accountant to see if there's anything in personal taxes-state and federal in income tax for rental of property
rental income is taxable income

- Permits? I expect them to be responsible for meeting all local, state, and federal requirements.



you need a temporary umbrella liability policy during construction as they will be bringing in a crane to erect the tower and guy lines and an
excavator for the anchor blocks

- They will have to be the ones to bring power in and have the meter in their name.

they use a meter box and schedule 80 plastic conduit and direct burial cable; the type and size depends on the transmitter and reciever and whether a rotophaser is needed for making three phase power

- Access - who is authorized and how to control the access-

control of access is only as good as the access road and gate to the tower site

room for snow plowing may be an issue

- are security cameras going to be needed? Possibly for me so I know who is on my property. I am expecting them to want 24/7/365 access and I'm ok with that
as long as it's limited to the antenna area.

Cameras should be used period

- just how much area is needed? How far out do the guy wires extend?''

It depends on whether the guy wires will be anchored to one buried concrete anchor for three cables or three concrete anchors per cable set up to 12 anchors which is totally dependent on the soil and the wind load.

- What kind of vegetation can remain or does it need to be completely cleared? I have some large hardwood trees along an infrequent creek in the area.

Vegetation is cleared all the way to the buried concrete anchors in all directions.

- Does the ground have to be covered by a metal grid for a ground plane?

Ground cables are either buried for a great distance or multiple ground rods and cable are used

- Fencing and maintenance of the area?

Typically a fencing contractor is hired for perimeter fencing and a gate by the tower owner and operator

- Who is paying for this move? Sounds expensive. I wouldn't think a Ham club would have that kind of money.

they are

- How long does this arrangement last and how is the agreement terminated and who pays for the removal. (Not me!)

property rental contract length is up to the tower owner and land owner

I really want to see the tower and get an idea of just how tall it is. I know what 200 horizontal feet look like, but 200' vertical, I have no clue. ( I have 40' pines between me and the proposed tower location so I don't think I will see it.) I also want to see the existing contract that covers where the antenna is now.

you will see the tower

They are not obligated to show you the contract because it is with another landowner




Did I catch everything or do you have any suggestions or something I need to ask about?

If you have an attorney make a 2 hour appointment to see him or her ASAP.

 

[M59]

There has been some discussion in threads about cell phone towers, and the pro's and con's. I have a situation coming up with a tower that's a little different. It is "only" 200' tall and has guy wires to hold it up and is short enough that it doesn't need lights on it. So far, that's all I know for sure, more info after I meet with the guy. The following is speculation and assumptions on my part based on observing other towers. First, this is not a commercial cell tower. It is a Ham radio repeater relay that is also used for emergency services and is expected to include a cell phone repeater and a GMRS repeater. We live in a bowl so cell phone has been a problem from day one. Terrain is rolling with 40' trees so GMRS range is very short. So I have an interest in this happening. The antenna is currently up and in use a few miles away (don't know exactly where) but has to be moved. I have a spot at the other end of my property that could be set aside for it without much of an inconvenience to us. I would like to have the tower installed because of the cell & GMRS repeaters. There are still many questions I have and things I have to check on such as:

- legal liability
- Property tax implications
- Have to check with accountant to see if there's anything in personal taxes
- Permits? I expect them to be responsible for meeting all local, state, and federal requirements.
- They will have to be the ones to bring power in and have the meter in their name.
- Access - who is authorized and how to control the access
- are security cameras going to be needed? Possibly for me so I know who is on my property. I am expecting them to want 24/7/365 access and I'm ok with that as long as it's limited to the antenna area.
- just how much area is needed? How far out do the guy wires extend?
- What kind of vegetation can remain or does it need to be completely cleared? I have some large hardwood trees along an infrequent creek in the area.
- Does the ground have to be covered by a metal grid for a ground plane?
- Fencing and maintenance of the area
- Who is paying for this move? Sounds expensive. I wouldn't think a Ham club would have that kind of money.
- How long does this arrangement last and how is the agreement terminated and who pays for the removal. (Not me!)

I really want to see the tower and get an idea of just how tall it is. I know what 200 horizontal feet look like, but 200' vertical, I have no clue. ( I have 40' pines between me and the proposed tower location so I don't think I will see it.) I also want to see the existing contract that covers where the antenna is now.

Did I catch everything or do you have any suggestions or something I need to ask about?

3Ts,

It appears you covered everything when the arrangement is amicable and the installer / owner/ operator is solvent.

What happens if the owner/ operator becomes insolvent or its management decides it is no longer interested in this line of business? A good attorney can prepare you and negotiate a contract for those events when amicable agreements blow up. A bond sufficient to cover tower removal and return of land to your expectations is a good way to keep the owner/ operator in abeyance with the contract.

 

[ponytug]

@leonz great post!

@3Ts In general the guy wires go out at 45-60 degrees, so, 115-200'. Whether they will use three mounts or twelve(ish) is their engineering call. The anchors may be substantial blocks of concrete, again depending on soil types and expected winds. Many jurisdictions require the antenna to be its height away from property lines. (I think to limit the damage to your property.) As the tower is not new, you might consider getting them to have an engineer certify that it is fit for use (welds ok, free of significant corrosion, etc. You and the club should be aligned on that one.)

You might want to talk to the ham club about limiting normal access to club members only, and requiring anyone who is on the tower to be certified climbers.

Many ham clubs have members who are experts at tower erection, maintenance, and disassembly, but it various enormously.

I know of an attorney who specializes in cell tower contracts in the southeast, but I haven't dealt with him personally. I would do a bit of hunting around to find an attorney with experience and expertise in tower leases, as they aren't exactly typical leases. You might call a couple of local broadcasters and ask who they use for their attorneys for their towers.

All the best,

Peter

 

[M59]

I know of an attorney who specializes in cell tower contracts in the southeast, but I haven't dealt with him personally. I would do a bit of hunting around to find an attorney with experience and expertise in tower leases, as they aren't exactly typical leases. You might call a couple of local broadcasters and ask who they use for their attorneys for their towers.

All the best,

Peter

ponytug,

Excellent guidance in suggesting an attorney who specializes in cell tower contracts within the requestor's geographic area.

 

[3Ts]

Got a little more info last night.

The tower is one of the Rohm series and is a triangular shape with about 16" on a side. There are 3 guy wires attached to each anchor point - 3 anchor points with 3 wires each for a total of 9 wires. The anchor points are a pipe driven into the ground with 3 eyes on each pipe. The area they'll need is 200' radius and there are buried ground cables running out from the base.

The club has a professional tower climber as one of their members. They plan to disassemble it manually.

It appears that the club funds all their own activities thru membership dues and raffles. The local emergency management folks apparently don't provide any funding. There is a memo of intent that says they'll help each other in emergencies if needed.

I have the approximate location of their tower, so wife and I will drive out and see it later this week.

Lots more discussion will be needed before anything is agreed to.

 

[Diggin It]

It appears that the club funds all their own activities thru membership dues and raffles.

Not a utility or significant corporation?

Flat outright dead NO.

 

[leonz]

Got a little more info last night.

The tower is one of the Rohm series and is a triangular shape with about 16" on a side. There are 3 guy wires attached to each anchor point - 3 anchor points with 3 wires each for a total of 9 wires. The anchor points are a pipe driven into the ground with 3 eyes on each pipe. The area they'll need is 200' radius and there are buried ground cables running out from the base.

The club has a professional tower climber as one of their members. They plan to disassemble it manually.

It appears that the club funds all their own activities thru membership dues and raffles. The local emergency management folks apparently don't provide any funding. There is a memo of intent that says they'll help each other in emergencies if needed.

I have the approximate location of their tower, so wife and I will drive out and see it later this week.

Lots more discussion will be needed before anything is agreed to.

WALK AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROHN towers

Each of the three leg needs 5 cables to one common anchor, walk away.

Do they also expect to spend all day and part of the night to lift a gin pole up to
the previously erected tower section to lift each section of tower and do this all
the way up to 230 feet to the top to lift the antennas and coated antenna wires
as well???

They need a hydraulic drive winch and cable tension gauge to properly tension
the guy wires and lift the antennas and antenna wire using a gin pole.

They obviously were not around when this was done if it was done by a tower
erecting contractor that did not follow the ROHM directions and recommendations.

They still need a crane period. They need a trencher to bury the ground lines and
a small rental pad tamper to pack the dirt down for a good ground.

They need to remove all the rocks the trencher digs up and sand to back fill the trench
after the ground cable is layed in the trench against one edge of the trench.

Your going to lose money and have huge liability.

You need to tell them that they need to hire a tower erecting company to do this to protect
you from any liability. They are already skirting things by not using 15 guy wires.

 

[ponytug]

A pipe driven into the ground does not sound like an appropriate anchor. A pipe attached to a concrete deadweight is a different story.

You can look up the Rohn tower specifications in the catalog on their website. IIRC, the 16" size is their 45G model. As far as the guy wires go, a great deal depends on the expected wind speed for your location, and the area of the antennas. Naively, east Texas means tornados and tropical storm winds to me, so I suspect that the five guy wire version is closer to what your site needs, but check the tables, and pay attention to the square footage of the antennas that are installed on the existing tower.

So long as the club posts a bond for removal costs, and insures the antenna, and you, I would be ok with it, but again, talk to an attorney.

All the best,

Peter