2003 F150 Transmission issues.

[N80]

Yes, neutral throttle, not neutral gear. Fuel filter is a thought. I hope it is not in the gas tank like many are these days. I will check.

 

[dusty3030]

The Ford modular engines ECU was 50% hardware and 50% voodoo.
Coil pack problems suck because they often don't throw a code. A good shop familiar with these engines can hook a good scan tool and get the misfires per cylinder and either look further down that road or rule it out.

 

[N80]

I have a fairly good scan tool that is showing nothing from the ECU. So far, the ECU on this truck has been sensitive and each time the problem has been cleared and resolved easily and predictably (PCV, thermostat stuck open, tiny vacuum leak etc).

I'll definitely keep the coil issue in mind but I still don't see why a coil issue would totally resolve with OD off and then recur fairly predictably with it on. But then again, as you say, there's the voodoo with most all modern engines..............

 

[tman1020]

In overdrive it becomes noticeable because of the taller gear.

 

[caver]

I was told what is probably happening is the engine is lugging and your voltage is at its lowest.

 

[N80]

Okay, so let's say it is a coil issue. Will the stealership have a tool that can detect this problem, in the shop, even when the ECU won't? With Japanese cars of this age this is not the case. If the problem doesn't happen when they run the diagnostic it will not detect it. In fact, on my old Maxima the dealership could not even tell me which coil was malfunctioning even when it did throw a code unless the problem happened when they ran the diagnostic. And again, it makes no sense to me that an ECU could possibly miss a series of three or four total misfires in a row and not throw a code. And if they are occuring, as you suggest, even in other gears and I only feel them when in OD, then that is even less likely.

But, I'm generally a pretty poor automotive diagnostician. So if the dealership can detect a latent coil issue with their equipment then I'll take it and have them try it but they don't do that sort of thing for free. There is nothing that I hate worse than taking a vehicle to the stealership and asking them to diagnose a vague problem. It gets awful pricey.

 

[fordmantpw]

Okay, so let's say it is a coil issue. Will the stealership have a tool that can detect this problem, in the shop, even when the ECU won't? With Japanese cars of this age this is not the case. If the problem doesn't happen when they run the diagnostic it will not detect it. In fact, on my old Maxima the dealership could not even tell me which coil was malfunctioning even when it did throw a code unless the problem happened when they ran the diagnostic. And again, it makes no sense to me that an ECU could possibly miss a series of three or four total misfires in a row and not throw a code. And if they are occuring, as you suggest, even in other gears and I only feel them when in OD, then that is even less likely.

But, I'm generally a pretty poor automotive diagnostician. So if the dealership can detect a latent coil issue with their equipment then I'll take it and have them try it but they don't do that sort of thing for free. There is nothing that I hate worse than taking a vehicle to the stealership and asking them to diagnose a vague problem. It gets awful pricey.

Honestly, I would not take it to a dealer, but a trusted mechanic. Much cheaper. And yes, they can be tested by using an ohmmeter.

Fortunately, there is an easy way to test the coil packs in your vehicle and make sure they're working as they should. You need to use ohm meter to test the coil pack for continuity. Make sure you have the approximate ohm values for the coil pack. To find this information, research your car's engine on the Internet or purchase a Chilton's or Haynes manual to find out what the mega ohms reading on the coil pack should be.

 

[dusty3030]

Okay, so let's say it is a coil issue. Will the stealership have a tool that can detect this problem, in the shop, even when the ECU won't? With Japanese cars of this age this is not the case. If the problem doesn't happen when they run the diagnostic it will not detect it. In fact, on my old Maxima the dealership could not even tell me which coil was malfunctioning even when it did throw a code unless the problem happened when they ran the diagnostic. And again, it makes no sense to me that an ECU could possibly miss a series of three or four total misfires in a row and not throw a code. And if they are occuring, as you suggest, even in other gears and I only feel them when in OD, then that is even less likely.

But, I'm generally a pretty poor automotive diagnostician. So if the dealership can detect a latent coil issue with their equipment then I'll take it and have them try it but they don't do that sort of thing for free. There is nothing that I hate worse than taking a vehicle to the stealership and asking them to diagnose a vague problem. It gets awful pricey.

You don't have to take it to a dealership, you said you had a good scan tool, it may work and you can DIY, but any good independent shop should be able to do it as well.

Read this article, it describes your problem and how to diagnose.

MOTOR Magazine Article | MOTOR Information Systems

 

[dusty3030]

Same article in PDF - has pictures in the PDF.

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/072011_09.pdf

 

[N80]

Thanks Dusty. Excellent article. As it turns out, my scan tool is not as good as I thought it was. It does not give me a data log. It does check all the available OBD parameters but all you get is a green check mark if they are okay. It shows "Misfire Monitoring" as normal but as per your article this probably doesn't mean anything. I might be able to get an app that does give a data log but I haven't found one yet.

The article mentioned that the ECU will shut down the fuel injection to the cylinder that is misfiring to avoid damage to the cats. If what I am experiencing is, in fact, a misfire, it is only intermittent. Does the ECU shut down the fuel injection for limited times or until the problem is solved. If it kept it off I think I'd be able to feel that as a loss of power.

It also seems nuts that Ford designed a system that will detect misfires well enough to shut down the fuel injection and still not throw a code.

As far as checking the ohms, will this work for an intermittent problem? It would not for my Maxima. Testing of individual coils was normal until one of them failed altogether.

I have a trusted local mechanic. Mostly imports but he has done work on my other Ford. I assume he has the necessary diagnostic equipment. He is not a friend or anything and I wonder if he would be offended if I gave him that article when I took the truck in?

Checked with the dealership. The last transmission service was fluid change only. No flush. No filter change. Probably time to get that done anyway.

I guess if it is a coil there is no harm driving it anyway.

Starting to think it is time for a Nissan Titan! (Used. I do not buy new trucks).

 

[fordmantpw]

Starting to think it is time for a Nissan Titan! (Used. I do not buy new trucks).

Because your truck is having an issue at 125k, you are willing to switch brands?

 

[3930dave]

I don't know the Ford ECU software well.

I do know that ECU's in general are often programmed to allow for a "rolling miss". I think the main reason is to avoid a nuisance CEL code, when somebody gets a tank of sub-standard fuel. In a case like that, the ECU is plenty fast enough to catch the miss, but since the problem clears up with the next tank of decent fuel, the manufacturer does not want a customer (esp. within warranty) coming in with a CEL light on just because of bogus fuel.

Could be a bad plug (not sure if your's have been changed or are still original), coil, or even the connector at the coil. Around here, we see connector corrosion on everything that drives on the road.

Coils can be a real PITA, esp. when they do not totally fail.

You mentioned that your ATF level is high (I think). If it is, try dropping it down to the proper level, allowing for if the fluid is at operating temperature. (Some sticks show both Hot and Cold levels, can't remember what those Fords do).

I'm a fan of changing Trans fluid and filter no later than what the factory spec is, so I'd do that anyway, but I'd be curious to see if it just a matter of too much ATF first.

Rgds, D.

 

[N80]

Because your truck is having an issue at 125k, you are willing to switch brands?

Well, its a long story. I've always been a Nissan guy (we all have a preferred brand). But when I needed and bought this truck (2003) neither Nissan nor Toyota made real full-sized trucks. I've never loved this truck and there are lots of things I've never liked about it. I had to replace the AC system after 5 years to the tune $900 and the rear window has leaked for years and it smells like mildew inside. It has never had adequate shocks (in my opinion) or brakes (in my opinion) but I could have easily taken care of that if I'd wanted to so I can't really complain. The suspension is too wallowy off road. Fine on highway. The steering is one of my biggest complaints. It is terribly vague and sloppy. Interior was cheap and rattly from day one. Trim pieces fall off. When it is in 4wd it is hard to turn (off road of course). At low speeds the throttle is like an on/off switch. It is hard to do anything precisely (backing or hitching to a trailer for instance).

Having said all that, it is comfortable to travel in, even long trips. I've never had any serious engine or mechanical problems. Nothing (mechanical) has ever leaked. It burns a little oil but replacing the PCV recently might help that. It has never once had or needed a front end alignment and I'm only on my third set of tires that still have 10k miles left in them and the middle set was used. Tire wear has always been uniform. That is hard to beat. It has plenty of power. Towing horses, tractors and cars has been trouble free. It has done everything I have asked it to do. It goes from episodes of hard use and abuse to long spells of no use. My kids grew up in it. Both drove it. My daughter still loves it like a pet and wants me to give it to her even though she is married. There has been no rust. So, in this regard it has grown on me and there is nothing like a beat up smelly truck that you don't have to worry about. If and when I let it go I will be sad.

But, I do some hauling of my car to the track. Usually not more than 3-4 hours away but I need to be confident that it will not leave me stranded. If I can get this problem sorted out I'll keep on going. However, I usually sell whatever I'm driving when repairs bills mount and reliability goes down. Since it probably isn't worth much I might actually give it to my daughter as a farm truck on of these days.

 

[N80]

You mentioned that your ATF level is high (I think). If it is, try dropping it down to the proper level, allowing for if the fluid is at operating temperature. (Some sticks show both Hot and Cold levels, can't remember what those Fords do).

The dip stick does have hot and cold levels. I checked it hot and it was in still all the way at the top of the "Do Not Add" section. Since I'm probably going to do a flush/fill/filter service I'll just check it again after that.

 

[fordmantpw]

Well, its a long story. I've always been a Nissan guy (we all have a preferred brand). But when I needed and bought this truck (2003) neither Nissan nor Toyota made real full-sized trucks. I've never loved this truck and there are lots of things I've never liked about it. I had to replace the AC system after 5 years to the tune $900 and the rear window has leaked for years and it smells like mildew inside. It has never had adequate shocks (in my opinion) or brakes (in my opinion) but I could have easily taken care of that if I'd wanted to so I can't really complain. The suspension is too wallowy off road. Fine on highway. The steering is one of my biggest complaints. It is terribly vague and sloppy. Interior was cheap and rattly from day one. Trim pieces fall off. When it is in 4wd it is hard to turn (off road of course). At low speeds the throttle is like an on/off switch. It is hard to do anything precisely (backing or hitching to a trailer for instance).

Having said all that, it is comfortable to travel in, even long trips. I've never had any serious engine or mechanical problems. Nothing (mechanical) has ever leaked. It burns a little oil but replacing the PCV recently might help that. It has never once had or needed a front end alignment and I'm only on my third set of tires that still have 10k miles left in them and the middle set was used. Tire wear has always been uniform. That is hard to beat. It has plenty of power. Towing horses, tractors and cars has been trouble free. It has done everything I have asked it to do. It goes from episodes of hard use and abuse to long spells of no use. My kids grew up in it. Both drove it. My daughter still loves it like a pet and wants me to give it to her even though she is married. There has been no rust. So, in this regard it has grown on me and there is nothing like a beat up smelly truck that you don't have to worry about. If and when I let it go I will be sad.

But, I do some hauling of my car to the track. Usually not more than 3-4 hours away but I need to be confident that it will not leave me stranded. If I can get this problem sorted out I'll keep on going. However, I usually sell whatever I'm driving when repairs bills mount and reliability goes down. Since it probably isn't worth much I might actually give it to my daughter as a farm truck on of these days.

Can't fault you for wanting to switch after not really loving the truck from day 1. I've never heard of vague or sloppy steering from an F150 of the recent years ('97+). I had a '99 and put 137k on it and the steering was just as true when I sold it as it was when I drove it off the lot with 7 miles. Like you, I sold it because it was starting to cost me money to keep it running. It was our third vehicle at the time as I had just bought a new '05 SuperCrew due to having a second child and not being able to fit all of us in the regular cab any more. After a couple coil packs, tranny, and a few other minor things, I decided it wasn't worth it for a 3rd vehicle anymore and sold it. Man, I still miss that truck! It was my first new vehicle.

At any rate, best of luck getting it fixed, and if you do move on, good luck picking a good new ride. Let us know how things come out and what fixes it.

 

[LD1]

Hope you get it fixed. I am not a ford guy, but everyone seems to think its something other than the trans.

Im going the other way an say it "could" be something to do with the converter going into lockup mode.

 

[N80]

Fordman, some of my complaints about the truck are probably just due to it being a full sized truck (I have always liked small trucks). The steering in all the late 90s to 03s seems vague to me....boat-like....full left rudder helmsman!!! My son-in-law has a 2013 F150 and its steering is much better.

 

[kc5dlo]

I was riding with a friend in his Ford Ranger while he was trying to figure out a misfire that happened occasionally. It was not throwing any codes but was enough to cause the truck to shudder noticeably. Then once when it stumbled, he put his fut to the floor and held it. The shudder got worse and then the check engine light came on. It was a coil pack.

 

[kenmac]

I'm with LD1..Converter is going bad..You are feeling this in od, when the converter tries to going to lock up mode..

 

[N80]

That was my 'hunch' all along but I don't know enough about ATs and torque converter to make any sort of educated guess. However, I have not experienced the problem at all in weeks.