2160 Battery Charging problem

[Melissa]

Hi. I have a model 2160 and I have been having issues with my battery staying charged. I bought a new battery thinking that it was weak and would not hold a charge. Even with the new battery it is not staying charged. The battery light comes on when the PTO is engaged. And if I start it to go do something with it and then turn it off it will not start again.

Now obviously the charging system is not right. We are thinking either alternator or voltage regulator.

Does anyone have a way to test these so I know which one is bad? Or is there one known to go bad?

Thanks

 

[BTDT]

Welcome to TBN. Sorry no one has responded to your question yet. I am not that familiar with your unit, but could it be 1) engine speed not fast enough when you engage pto, or 2) if pto is operated electrically like the clutch on an air conditioner compressor (maybe you have a bad coil drawing too many amps). Does it pull the engine down a lot when pto engaged, any strange squealing noises like maybe a bad bearing, etc? Could it be a bad connection/cable at the battery or where it attatches to ground? Good luck, maybe someone with a similar unit will chime in soon, possibly LBrown59, he's fond of CC's.

 

[BoobyTrap]

SOUNDS LIKE A BLOWN FUSE. IT WILL START, BUT IT'S NOT CHARGING THE BATTERY WHEN RUNNING. THE PTO IS AN ELECTROMAGNET, SO WHEN YOU TURN THE PTO ON, IT'S INDICATING YOU'RE PULLING OFF OF THE BATTERY. REASON FOR BLOWN FUSE? DO YOU WASH IT OFF W/A WATER HOSE? BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. OR A WIRE HAS RUBBED SOMEWHERE AND SHORTED. JUST MY TWO CENTS. KNIGHTMAN

 

[tommu56]

Melissa

Welcome to the site.

What type of engine is in it alot of us don't know model's but most use standard engines Kohler or Kawasaki or Briggs etc and might be familiar with that motor and we could help from there.


tom

 

[Melissa]

Thanks for the welcome.

The engine is a Briggs

No blown fuses already checked that. Yes we have washed it down before but not often. No it is not making any noises when the PTO is engaged.

Even if I do not mow and use it for pulling a wagon of leaves, if I shut the engine off it will not restart. So it is not just with the PTO it is when it is just running as well.

Of course the light comes on when the PTO is engaged as it is drawing more power from the battery.

This issue is around even when not mowing so I do not think it has anything to do with the PTO.

We have checked wires and everything and they all look good.

The battery cables are good as well as we replaced them.

So something is not charging it while running and I want to figure it out before I try to just replace parts.

Thanks

 

[7254t]

its ether the voltage regulator or the stater.

 

[Melissa]

its ether the voltage regulator or the stater.

How do I tell which one it is?

 

[JTKub]

I'd start by pulling fuses to see what fuse being pulled stops the battery from discharging. If none have an effect, I'd look into the charging system next. I have also seen new batteries off the shelf not take a charge. Check the date of manufacture on that battery if you can.

Joel

 

[Rhoderman]

A couple of comments:

My battery in my CC 2042 just died last week. It was only 2 years old. It had a dead cell. The voltage was 12V until you touched off the starter for a second w/o starting it. Then it dropped to 10V, indicating a dead cell. I didn't even bother with any warranty or pro-rated stuff. A new battery was $25.

If your tractor has an hour meter on it, there are a couple things you can do. One is to observe the number that comes up when you turn the key to ON w/o starting it. It will show the voltage first (like 12.2), then flip to the hours. Once you have it running, throttle up to full, then flip the key momentarily to OFF and then back ON again quickly. Observe the voltage on the meter. If it shows 13.8 or something near that, your alternator and V Reg are fine, as that is the proper voltage for charging the battery. If it shows 12V or so, you have something wrong with your alternator or regulator.

The regulator on mine is on the LH side of the fan shroud on the engine (I think). If you can locate yours, check to see if the wires are clean and tight. Also check the battery terminals. Sometimes they will be corroded enough you can start it, but the corrosion builds up resistance and prevents proper charging.

Good Luck with it!

Jim

 

[mark1]

you might check the connector at the engine shroud.Mine has a 3-4 terminal plastic pulg in.one of the terminals mustof pushed back into the plastic and did not make a good contact with the opposite terminal. I didn't find it till I noticed the plastic connector partially melted. I had some of the same problems of PTO not engaging and engine wouldn't start because of low battery.

 

[BobRip]

How do I tell which one it is?

If you jump start it and the starter works then it is very unlikely to be the starter. If you can charge the battery and then start it immediately then it is probably not the battery.

If it is the charging system there are many things it could be and I am not knowledgeable about your particular system. You will need a good electrical man for this.

I hope this helps.

Is the belt tight? This can hinder charging.

 

[Fordlords]

The other posters covered this well, if your tractor doesn't have a volt meter, buy or borrow a digital multimeter and check the voltage at the battery with the engine off and then running. Should be around 12-12.5 volts DC off, 13.5-14.8 with it running. You should see a definite increase in voltage as an indicator the alternator and regulator/rectifier (R/R) outputs are OK.

I don't have a sehematic for the Briggs Vanguard to see what type of alternator stator it has, but a typical three phase alternator will feed approximately 30 volts AC between the three legs in to the R/R module. If any one of the fields is dead, the stator is shot and needs to be replaced, which involves removing the engine flywheel. (Yes, a project on a shaft drive Cub) If the feed to the R/R is OK and there is little or no DC charge output from it (indicated by low or no charge voltage), you just need to replace the R/R module, a farily simple task. R/R modules typically fail more frequently than the stator does.

Also, check stupid things like loose cables and connectors. These inexpensive items sometimes cause more grief than they are worth dollar-wise.

-Fordlords-

 

[Bob_Bainbridge]

I favor an ammeter over a voltmeter. I added one to my 3235. The voltmeter shows whether the alternator is charging but doesn't show the state of the battery. You could show 14.5 volts all day but still have a dead battery if the battery fails. When I first start the tractor the ammeter jumps up to 10 amps so I know the alternator is working. After a few minutes it gradually drops to almost zero, which indicates the battery is fully charged. It's a little harder to install since you must wire it into the circuit between the battery terminal on the starter and the wire, feeding the tractor circuitry other than the starter, which was attached to the terminal. I ran a couple 10 ga wires up to the meter.

Bob B.

 

[OhioGuy]

Hi Melissa,

Here's a schematic in PDF format. I'm used to seeing a four connection voltage regulator on Cubs but it looks like yours has an alternator, according to this PDF.


In the upper left corner you see the stator with two yellow wires feedind the alternator. Those are delivering the AC which should then be rectified by the alternator. I don't know the exact number, but if your getting 25 Volts or so AC to the alternator, the stator is good.

The red lead out should be around 13 to 14.5 volts DC with the tractor running.

Welcome to TBN, good luck with your 2160.

Curt

 

[BobRip]

I favor an ammeter over a voltmeter. I added one to my 3235. The voltmeter shows whether the alternator is charging but doesn't show the state of the battery. You could show 14.5 volts all day but still have a dead battery if the battery fails. When I first start the tractor the ammeter jumps up to 10 amps so I know the alternator is working. After a few minutes it gradually drops to almost zero, which indicates the battery is fully charged. It's a little harder to install since you must wire it into the circuit between the battery terminal on the starter and the wire, feeding the tractor circuitry other than the starter, which was attached to the terminal. I ran a couple 10 ga wires up to the meter.

Bob B.

Sorry to disagree. I prefer the voltmeter. When you turn the key on you can see the battery voltage and thus if all cells are working (should be 12 to 12.6). When you crank it should stay above 10.5 to indicate a battery in good condition. When running it should be 13.5 to 14.5 indicating charging system is working. When you turn on loads and the voltage drops below 12.6 you know the alternator is not keeping up with the load. You might want to raise engine speed or shutoff some loads.

 

[Bob_Bainbridge]

Sorry to disagree. I prefer the voltmeter. When you turn the key on you can see the battery voltage and thus if all cells are working (should be 12 to 12.6). When you crank it should stay above 10.5 to indicate a battery in good condition. When running it should be 13.5 to 14.5 indicating charging system is working. When you turn on loads and the voltage drops below 12.6 you know the alternator is not keeping up with the load. You might want to raise engine speed or shutoff some loads.

I guess we all have our own preferences. An ammeter is almost impossible to find on any late model cars. Because of this I have never had a clue when a battery was failing until it failed to start or turned over very slow. When I used to see the car charging 20 amps after being driven for a couple hours, I knew something was wrong. Install both and then we would both be happy<g>.

Bob B.

 

[BobRip]

I guess we all have our own preferences. An ammeter is almost impossible to find on any late model cars. Because of this I have never had a clue when a battery was failing until it failed to start or turned over very slow. When I used to see the car charging 20 amps after being driven for a couple hours, I knew something was wrong. Install both and then we would both be happy<g>.

Bob B.

Yeah, both sounds good. Batteries today seem to give no warning. I have certainly seen that. I think it's the way they make batteries though and not the charging system. The resolution on the voltmeters is really not good enough to do the diagnosis well so the ampmeter does have some advantage. It's a good thing alternators are so reliable. When I do diagnosis on a system I always use a digital voltmeter, not the built in volt meter. So you may be right.