2210 smokes on startup

RalphVa · Nov 12, 2004

I don't think that information that Dutch said about putting it in gear to make the preheater (e.g. glow plugs) work is correct. See my post in the general owning/operating section on this. Yes, the manual is awful in explaining this, and JD deserves a swat for not putting glow plug indicator lights on the dash board.

My JD 4010 smoked horribly when I started it recently in cold weather without knowing how the glow plugs work. So, I connected a test light to one of the glow plugs and grounded the test light. The test light WOULD NOT come on with the key on and tractor in gear. It came on when the key switch is moved from "on" to just before turning the starter on. After around 7 seconds, the light went off, and I heard a small click. (The manual does mention listening for this click but isn't too clear as to how to turn the glow plugs on. Now, JD, deaf folks can operate a tractor, but blind ones can't. Give us an indicator light!) The tractor then started immediately, with no white smoke.

In really, really cold weather don't expect NO smoke. I've owned diesel cars for nearly 30 years. They WILL smoke a little bit in really cold weather. Below about 0 F or so, you'd better have an anti-gel additive in your fuel. With a heater on the engine, it'll start fine, but the fuel filter may collect wax and start fuel flow. You can also add up to 50% kerosene to keep it from gelling.

Ralph

Dutch445 · Nov 12, 2004

Ralph,
Here is the Deere DTAC solution regarding cold start:
Solution Number: 57657

Solution Summary: Glow plugs fail to operate as noted in the operator's manual.

Publication Date: Oct 13 2003

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**Paper copies of solutions may not be the most current solutions**

Complaint or Symptom:

Hard starting / smoking during start up in cold climates.

Problem or Situation:

The glow plugs are only active when the key switch is in the start position. The operations manual was not updated prior to shipping release.

Solution:

The following steps can be followed to allow the glow plugs to warm the pre- combustion chamber prior to starting the engine.

Fully engage the parking brake.
Place the range shift in the high position.
Turn the key switch to the start position and hold for up to five seconds. Note: The engine should not spin over during this procedure.
Place the range shift in the neutral position.
Start the engine as noted in the operations manual.

RalphVa · Nov 12, 2004

What isn't clear is the "start" position. There are 3 positions on the ignition switch. First is "on", which turns on the dash warning lights. Second is "start", but just before engaging the starter. Hold it here until you hear the click of the solenoid turning off the juice to the glow plugs. This is the position that actuated my test light that I described above and in the general owning/operating forum. Third position is "starter engagement". When you release the key, the switch pops back to "on" position.

It isn't necessary to move the gear engagement lever off "N".

Ralph

Dutch445 · Nov 12, 2004

Ralph,
If you are saying that if you follow the procedure outlined by the engineers above, and you're glow plugs don't work in the "crank" position of the keyswitch, then I believe you have a problem in your switch. When you talk about the "position" between "crank" and "run", you are talking about an extremely touchy area to find, and it doesn't work on all tractors. (i've tried on several here on the lot) I would find it very difficult to explain to customers that you have to hold this key in such a precise manor that it doesn't roll into "crank", yet still engages the glow plug circuit. When I put all of the tractors into gear, and turned the switch into "crank" position, they all indicated (by the dash lights dimming) that the glow plugs were drawing amperage. They stayed dim until I let up on the switch. Once in neutral, each tractor started instantly. (about 35 here today)

RalphVa · Nov 12, 2004

You're right, Dutch.

I went out (rainy day; can't use the tractor; lots of time to piddle) and did some more work with the test light. It's very difficult to detect when you're in that "start" position between "on" and "starter engagement" without having a test light on one of the glow plugs. I found that the test light does light when the key is turned to "starter engagement" with the range level in either "H" or "L" OR if the PTO button is pulled up.

So, folks I'd say to follow these abridged directions that Dutch supplied us. Think counting to somewhere between 7 to 10 seconds should do it before putting the range lever in "N" or pushing the PTO button down. You may or may not be able to hear the faint click of the solenoid. I'm not so sure the glow plug auto-cut-off works other than from that "start" position. In full, "engage starter" position, it doesn't seem to cut the glow plugs off automatically.

This is a real goof on JD's part, but guess we can live with it if the rest of the tractor holds up historically well.

Ralph

bigpete · Nov 12, 2004

A quick thought: I wouldn't, and don't, hold the key in the "start" position for more than a five-count. First, becasue the DTAC advice says so. Second, becasue JD has used a different type of glow plug system that seems like a faster "flash" heat than the old traditional glow plug that you can leave on for awhile. When it gets really cold, I'll do two or three five-count cycles rather than hold it on for fifteen beats.

RalphVa · Nov 13, 2004

A 5 count may be enough, especially for us impatient folks.

I'm just going by how long it takes my 1983 Benz glow plug light to go out in really cold weather. It's probably closer to 5 rather than 10, possibly more like 7. It has the newer type of glow plugs that came out that long ago. In warm weather, the glow light only stays on a second or so.

Ralph

Dutch445 · Nov 15, 2004

The owner's manual is what bothers me the most. None of they have this procedure in them, for the 2210 up thru the 4115, that I can see. Maybe they thought that cranking for 5 seconds isn't a problem, and usually by then they always start anyway.
Has anybody with the new 4020 series tractors commented on the startup of those new Deere engines? Talk about a shot of fuel, they have those engines starting with a very loud, rich mixture that seems to rev over 2000 rpm right on initial startup. Then once it's started, it idles back down to where the throttle is set.

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jd4115 · Nov 15, 2004

The 4115 is different. It doesn't have glow plugs but rather a preheater.

If you turn the key to the run position and watch the panel lights carefully, you can see them stay dim for 3-5 seconds. This is the preheater working. After that they get brigher and you can turn the key to start.

Worked great other morning at about 30 degrees.

djsch · Nov 15, 2004

Seems like there's a lot of differences between models on the glow-plug issue. I have owned a 2210 for about a year now. The trick I used I learned here on TBN on another thread last fall. It works great on the 2210 but may not apply at all on other models. As near as I can tell from reading this entire thread tonight, the 2210 is the only one that works exactly this way and no-one has suggested this specific procedure.

Just for the record... The only mention of glow plugs I can find in the 2210 manual is at the bottom of column 2 on page 12 where it says "C - START Position ..... activate the glow plugs."

The glow plugs come on when you turn the key to start but no one has mentioned that they only STAY on for 2-3 seconds no matter how long you hold the key. The trick is (as others have said) to engage the PTO or put it in LOW range then turn the key to start and hold it 2-3 seconds. This will allow the heaters to kick in but will prevent the engine from cranking. As someone else said, when the heaters kick in, the panel lights dim and there is an audible click. But after 2-3 seconds, there is another click and the lights get bright again indicating that the heaters have shut down. So, holding the key longer than that is a waste of time IMHO. So I just release the key and do it again. The number of times I cycle it depends on how cold it is. It seems the more times I do it though, the less smoke I see. The tractor will start in the summer without doing this but even at 75-80 ambient temp it starts nicer with one cycle of the plugs. Once its been started this way, there seems to be no need to go through this process again unless you let it sit long enough to get ice cold again - and that seems to take several hours (in the summer anyway - in the winter I never shut it off outside).

If fuel additives affect the smoke, then I suppose the brand and grade you burn make a difference too since different oil companies will have different additives. I run CENEX since they sell "off-road" (no road taxes) fuel that is blended for the farmer. I see no smoke except on a cold start (gray/white smoke) or when its working really hard on the tiller (black smoke).

On the subject of engaging & disengaging the PTO... On page 20-21 on the 2210 manual under "Engaging the PTO", Step 5 says "Set engine speed to 1500 rpm or less". Then under "Disengaging the PTO", step 1 says "Adjust engine rpm to low idle." Based on that, I would not make a practice of engaging or disengaging the PTO at engine speeds above 1500 rpm.

I have almost 50 hours on my tractor and have not changed oil yet. However, unlike what you all seem to be saying, I have added a total of about 1/2 quart so far. Am I the only one who's tractor is buring oil during breakin? I thought it was normal to expect that but now I'm wondering ..... Should I worry? Maybe I don't work it hard enough to break it in properly? Its spent a few hours pushing dirt with the FEL and a few more running the tiller but mostly I just mow with it. I guess I pushed a bit of snow last winter too but the tiller is the only thing that seems to give it any challenge at all. Any thoughts?

Dave