2305 Dead, no electrical

[LoganWildman]

Hello all, Does anyone know where the ground points are for the dash/underdash wiring for a 2305? I had the tractor out, did some loader work, then used it to raise the front of my zturn so I could replace the blades and shut it off while I was doing the blade change/deck cleaning. I then went to start it and the oil light flickered a few times and the starter wouldn't engage. Subsequent times of turning the key to run and no lights at all. I tried the light/flasher switch and nothing there either. Troubleshooting steps so far are; Master fuse, good, 4 fuses on right side also good, battery 13 volts, starter 13 volts, main fuse good and 13 volts. Auxiliary panel in the cab, 13 volts and the aux lights, wiper and heater motor all work. Pulled the lower dash cowl off, checked the white/red wire going into the key switch, 13 volts. Checked the white/blk wire going the the dash light switch, 13 volts.
I have someone taking the battery in today for load testing and replacing the battery ground cable (precaution because we replaced the batt clamp several years ago)

I am really leaning to a ground issue, but am not sure where all the chassis grounds are located.

Thanks
Alan

 

[beenthere]

Battery check/load test and cable connections cleaned will likely fix the problem, hopefully.

 

[bigtiller]

My money says the battery has a dead cell. That's the way they go bad, good one minute and bad the next minute. Try starting with a known, good battery.

 

[mllud]

Most likely battery or connections as stated above.

I had an issue with a bad fuse holder; the fuses were loose in the holder. With the key on wiggle the fuses. I would never have found it but I accidently bumped it and heard the relay click.
Unlikely problem but its now on my trouble shooting list. Four of five fuses had intermittent contact.

 

[bumperm]

Are there ignition interlocks, such as a seat switch or neutral selector that may be causing the problem? Does applying 12 volts to the starter solenoid (after first removing connector wire from that point), get it to crank over?

 

[LoganWildman]

There are interlocks, but everything is "dead". No lights, no start. The light switch circuit is seperate and can be turned on with the key in the off position and there are no lights.

We had the battery load tested and it is good. Also, if I put my volt meter on the power leads for the ignitio and lights and bear metal on the chassis, I see the proper voltage. This is what has me looking for the under dash grounds.

 

[Spanner]

Make some 'temporary' grounds using jumper cables:
- Engine to chassis
- Engine to battery
- Chassis to battery

and Battery +ve to starter motor terminal.

Seems 'everybody' posting here says "Battery was load tested and is 'good' "

Jump from a known strong battery in your car or truck to be sure.

 

[LoganWildman]

So I did 2 things and fixed the issue. 1. Replaced the ground cable that
Goes from the frame to the battery and the real culprit. The chassis ground under the foot board. When I removed the bolt, I saw frame paint under the terminal and corrosion on the bolt. I removed the paint under the terminal and cleaned the bolt. After that, everything worked. FYI, Deere has everything coming back to this ground point.

 

[Wvanatti]

So I did 2 things and fixed the issue. 1. Replaced the ground cable that
Goes from the frame to the battery and the real culprit. The chassis ground under the foot board. When I removed the bolt, I saw frame paint under the terminal and corrosion on the bolt. I removed the paint under the terminal and cleaned the bolt. After that, everything worked. FYI, Deere has everything coming back to this ground point.

 

[Wvanatti]

Thanks for coming back an advising what you found. I was following- but nothing to add.

 

[Snezzy]

Good catch on finding the ground culprit. In future troubleshooting you can test the voltage between two supposedly grounded points, such as the neg post and the frame. Under load, any voltage at all, like even a quarter of a volt, showing up between two grounded points tells you there is a bad ground.

I use my old Simpson 260 meter for that kind of issue. With a "noisy" connection, the swinging needle tells me more than I'd learn from a modern voltmeter with a bouncing digital display.

When working on that kind of problem it can be helpful to have a friend cranking the starter or holding the meter probes, but he must be someone you trust. You need absolutely correct communication to avoid accidents such as having the engine start cranking while your fingers are under a belt. An apology, "Oh, sorry, I just thought I'd crank it to see what would happen," won't repair the severed finger.

 

[CoyPatton]

I agree that you likely have either a battery issue or a battery cable issue. 1st (assuming from saying you were taking battery for load testing that you don’t have a load tester), begin with cleaning battery post and cable ends. Then clean battery end at starter, and ground cable at frame connection. Then test voltage at battery and at starter. Both with and without attempting starting. If you have a voltage drop at the battery when trying to start—likely a bad battery. If no drop in voltage at battery, but drop at starter when starting—likely bad cable between battery and starter. Also to check for bad negative battery cable, check battery voltage between battery and frame, both with and without attempting to start.

 

[LoganWildman]

Good catch on finding the ground culprit. In future troubleshooting you can test the voltage between two supposedly grounded points, such as the neg post and the frame. Under load, any voltage at all, like even a quarter of a volt, showing up between two grounded points tells you there is a bad ground.

I use my old Simpson 260 meter for that kind of issue. With a "noisy" connection, the swinging needle tells me more than I'd learn from a modern voltmeter with a bouncing digital display.

When working on that kind of problem it can be helpful to have a friend cranking the starter or holding the meter probes, but he must be someone you trust. You need absolutely correct communication to avoid accidents such as having the engine start cranking while your fingers are under a belt. An apology, "Oh, sorry, I just thought I'd crank it to see what would happen," won't repair the severed finger.

Wow, I haven't used a Simpson meter in 20 plus years lol.

I agree that you likely have either a battery issue or a battery cable issue. 1st (assuming from saying you were taking battery for load testing that you don’t have a load tester), begin with cleaning battery post and cable ends. Then clean battery end at starter, and ground cable at frame connection. Then test voltage at battery and at starter. Both with and without attempting starting. If you have a voltage drop at the battery when trying to start—likely a bad battery. If no drop in voltage at battery, but drop at starter when starting—likely bad cable between battery and starter. Also to check for bad negative battery cable, check battery voltage between battery and frame, both with and without attempting to start.

In the OP, I explained that no voltage was going to anything, so it did me no good to check voltage on the starter when someone turned the key. ( I tried) When I saw that I had voltage on the input wire of the light switch and key switch but no activity past that, I knew it was a ground issue. According to the 2305 wiring schematics, everything comes back to a common ground. Once I found that ground and removed the bolt, I knew I had found the issue and sure enough, removing the paint under the terminal, and cleaning the corrosion off the bolt restored the ground and i had everything working again.

 

[CoyPatton]

Wow, I haven't used a Simpson meter in 20 plus years lol.

In the OP, I explained that no voltage was going to anything, so it did me no good to check voltage on the starter when someone turned the key. ( I tried) When I saw that I had voltage on the input wire of the light switch and key switch but no activity past that, I knew it was a ground issue. According to the 2305 wiring schematics, everything comes back to a common ground. Once I found that ground and removed the bolt, I knew I had found the issue and sure enough, removing the paint under the terminal, and cleaning the corrosion off the bolt restored the ground and i had everything working again.

Actually from the negative battery cable to the battery cable at the starter, assuming the positive battery cable is not compromised, you should have virtually the same voltage as using the positive and negative battery post for voltage check. The positive cable on most 12v neg ground vehicles the positive post cable goes directly to the starter. Now with a faulty connection at the frame checking the starter connection to the frame provides limited information. But that would be covered when you checked voltage to the frame from the battery positive post.