24 horse tractor... what do you think?

[jasonscroggins]

my company is looking to buy a compact utility tractor. we have narrowed it down to a kubota 7610, a JD 4115, or a NH TC24 (i think that was the name of the 24horse New Holland- i dont have the papers with me at this moment). anyway, i would like some opinions on which one is the best for the buck. I recieved similar pricing (actually, cheaper for the john deere). we will be using the tractor for landscape management (aerating, rough mowing, de-thatching, leaf blowing, snow removal, etc.)
thanks.

 

[Soundguy]

You've listed tractors from the "Big Three". Pretty much top producers and all great names. It would be hard for you to get a 'bad' tractor from any of the ones listed.

Choose the options you want.. find out what they cost among those tractors / dealers. Take dealer incentives and 'extras' into account as well as the dealer himself. Make your choice and be happy. ( I'm a NH man myself.. so of course I'm partial to blue. )

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I am biased to Kubota & New Holland because I use both. Kubota engines run really smooth. I beleive they have pretty weak loaders based on my use and their specs. I love the NH loaders and their specs rate them very high. The JD loader gives specs that don't give easy comparisons so I'm not clear where they fall, but on both the JD & the Kubota, the tractors have long relatively flat hoods and old style square arm loaders that limit visibility. The NH gives greater visibility which makes it easier to use. I think you will find that all 3 will have good warrenties, all 3 will have excellent parts availability, all 3 will pull & operate identical implements.

I don't know if you are looking at HST or gear, but I'd recommend HST trasnmissions and all 3 are available with that. The TC24 has a 12volt outlet under the seat, not sure about the other 2 brands.

Loader specs are as follows (as taken from the mfg websites), LIFT & BREAKOUT are at the pivot point, CAPACITY is at the middle of the bucket at full lift height:

NH 12LA 1090# Lift; 1720# Breakout; 800# Capacity at 7'1" maximum lift height

Kub LA352 925# Lift; 1336# Breakout; ????# Capacity at 5'8" maximum lift height

JD 410 ???# Lift; 2130# Breakout; 800# Capacity at 6'2" maximum lift height

 

[pekabu]

I looked at the JD, Kubota, and NH last year. JD was really nice, but very expensive. Kubota was what I started looking at, but after I saw the NH I felt it was the best. The only thing I think NH was the worst at was the engine noise. It's a bit louder and has a clatter to it. The other two were a bit smoother sounding.

 

[Golfgar4]

The other guys have provided good comments concerning these various tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I might ask how many employees will be opertaing the tractor? If it's only going to be one employee, then make sure that the employee has some voice in the decision. Let the person sit on each machine and try them out. It would be important for the employee to feel comfortable on the final choice, especially if (s)he might be operating for a number of hours.

If, on the other hand, multiple employees will be using this tractor, then get the one that seems to be the most "generic", as far as controls go. If these employees have used a tractor in the past that is being replaced, then see if one of your choices might have a similar control layout to the old tractor. That will make the learning curve a little less severe.

Regardless of whether there will be one employee operating it, or multiple employees, make sure that whichever dealer you select will provide proper training for ALL of your employees on the tractor that you're buying. And this training should be part of the package that your company is buying. In fact, it should be a company policy that no employee may operate the tractor until they have successfully received proper training on it.

Sorry that my repsosne doesn't specifically address your questions concerning the costs, but I feel strongly about proper training on company owned equipment. Sometimes in the rush to get the equipment, training gets overlooked.

Let us know what is decided. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Garry, all excellent points!
I buy medium duty trucks (~26,000# GVW) and spec out Allision automatic transmissions because I don't want to put someone in one truck with 6 speed manual and then put him in another similar truck with a 12 speed, etc. Having all of them as autos makes our training and orientation much easier. It also means we have less downtime on our equipment due to operator error. The same theory would apply to the tractor purchase for a landscape company. Simple controls, well marked controls are all good!

Also, I think I'd opt for position control on the 3pt hitch, it is more expensive than lesser systems but more precise. I think it is standard on NH & JD, optional on the Kubota? Not sure of that. I know some of the smaller Kubotas use 1/4" valving to save costs, I'm just not sure which models have that.

 

[JayC]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I know some of the smaller Kubotas use 1/4" valving to save costs, I'm just not sure which models have that. )</font>

I think the 1/4" inching 3PH is on the B7xxx machines.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Very good points you've made Gary especially about multiple users. This is a great argument for buying an HST transmission as so many people don't understand that on a gear drive tractor, one puts it in gear and keeps the foot off the clutch. A friend was telling me the other day that a rental agent told him that he was NEVER going to buy another gear tractor because he keeps having to replace the clutches due to people slipping the clutch to slow instead of just finding the proper gear and only clutching when stopping or changing gears. I've seen people do that, get close to something and partially clutch instead of changing to a lower gear. It's hell on clutches!
If you're considering a Kubota B7610, you should also check out the HST models offered by Kioti, the CK20, CK25 and CK30. They are VERY competitive and offer a lot of standard equipment that costs more on the others. Also, as Bob Shurka pointed out, they have sloped hoods and curved arm loaders that make visiblilty much better. The NH slope is a little better. I have a CK20HST and have tried the other two models and found them to be quite excellent for the money.
The JD and Kubota were very nice, but couldn't compete on cost, weight, and lift capacities "for me." John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Jason, I think KiotiJohn brings up a good point about the CK line from Kioti IF you want to add another brand to the mix you are already looking at. I'm just guessing here, but since you are looking at the 24hp machines, I'm thinking you want a small size with as much HP as you can get in that size.

If that is the case, then the CK20 (which is 21hp) might be a good tractor to consider if it has enough PTO hp to run the implments you are looking for. The advantage to the small frame units is that they manuver in much tighter quarter than mid-or-large frame tractors. The Kioti CK25 is built on a much larger frame so that might not suit your needs (and personally I think its HP to Weight to Size ratio is pretty bad) but the CK20 is a very nice machine.

In some regions, the Kioti brand is priced considerably less than the Big 3 brands, in other areas it is priced in the same range. In ANY case, since you are buying for a landscape company, I would suggest you seriously check out the dealer and make sure that any dealer you buy any brand from is a good full service dealer.

 

[shoppintractors]

Bob Skurka writes:<font color="blue"> The Kioti CK25 is built on a much larger frame so that might not suit your needs (and personally I think its HP to Weight to Size ratio is pretty bad) </font>

Disclaimer: Your results may vary. I would recommend to put your butt in the seats of all the tractors and try them out. Then base your decisions on actual experience with that particular tractor. The CK25 is a new model for Kioti. Early reports have been positive.

Don