2610D and Engine ISSUES!!!

[rock2610D]

Well here is the scoop. Decided to adjust valves and noticed right away that the only cylinder that was any good was #3. I could spin motor over by the fan until cylinder #3 started compression stroke and I had to push down on valve spring to release pressure and finish adjusting valves. Did not have to do that for cylinder #1 or #2.

I assumed bad rings in #1 and #2. Tore head off this afternoon and WOW I cannot belive this thing actually ran and did not have major smoke issues and blowby.

Head is so cracked that I can see cracks with naked eye. The area between intake valve and injector is where crack is. Also the combustion chamber of Cy1 and Cy2 have large pits in it where it looks like some metal melted. Taking head to machine shop tomarrow to see if it is salvagabe. I kinda doubt it.

Piston #1 and #2 are toast. I will need new pistons. Liners in 1 and 2 are pitted and scratched. Could be saved but I will replace them too.

When I took my intake manifold off there are numbers and letters stamped on the inside--- 3T80J. Motor has 3T80D stamped on block. I believe the 3T80J is a John Deere motor.

Here is the issue WILL THE 3T80J HEAD FIT THE 3T80D block????? John Deere still makes the 3T80J head for the JD 850. Not sure of the price but if head cannot be saved I have to do something.


Photos of disaster attached.

NOW I KNOW WHY IT WAS HARD TO START!!! Can't believe it even ran like this and had loads of power (with Turbo).

Cylinder #3 was in PERFECT condtion but I am still going to replace rings.

 

[LMTC]

The motor in the 850 was never made by Deere, nor was the head; they were made by Yanmar. The head for the 850 lists at $855. Even if the numbers cross, that's a lot of $$. I suggest you contact Fredricks Eqpmnt to see if it can be repaired. The worst you'll be out to find out is shipping, and I know they have a shop they send heads and blocks to that does remarkable work.

 

[mark777]

Rock,

This goes all the way back to difficult starting, cold starting issues when you first started the turbo project.

Some pics of porosity and pitting may indicate ether/starting fluid damage from the previous owner.

How does the bottom end rod and main bearings look? It will be very interesting to see how the tractor's performance is after the overhaul...and before the turbo is refitted.

Mark

 

[rock2610D]

LMTC, thanks for the info. Fredricks is sending me a reman head $550 plus $450 core. Will get $450 back once I send in old head. Fredricks is a lifesaver. A new head at $855 plus $300 dollars worth of valves, springs, and such would have been over $1000 dollars. As it is, should only cost $550 plus shipping.

Mark, did not think of starting fluid causing the damage. I assumed engine got overheated. But it makes "CENTS" that rings went bad and previous owner used starting fluid to get things running. Wondering why cyl #3 looks so good though. Its as if it is brand new.

My "good buy" is turning out to be a "somewhat good buy". Purchased tractor and Allied 195 loader for $5000.00. As of today I will have just over $6800.00 in it, and hopefully some reassurance that motor is good to go.

 

[mark777]

...... My "good buy" is turning out to be a "somewhat good buy"..........QUOTE]

Hey Rock....as long as it's not a "Good Bye" ...your still in pretty good shape LOL.

We've seen some boat anchors that were perfect candidates for overhaul IF the owners hadn't used ether. Unfortunately it's the go to tool when a simple ring (and valve job) is all it would take for another 3-4K hours of viable life.

 

[rock2610D]

Have to start fabing up my cylinder liner puller. My manual is for a 336 and bore diameter is not the same as mine.

Does anyone know what diameter disk I need on bottom of liner to pull it?

Does anyone know what ID pipe I should get for the top portion of the puller? IE liner must slip thru pipe while pulling.

Engine 3T80 IE 80 mm cylinder diameter.

If I assume liner is .25 inches thick I should get a disk around 90 mm in diameter? And a pipe around 95 mm ID? Will a .5 inch thick disk work?

 

[arthr31]

Hey Rock.. Just to follow up on Mark's post(s), I think maybe the turbo brought this to final light. Cylndrs look lik bad wear and other problems might have contributed to deterioration. When you add boost, you add cyl pressure, this might have forced an unknown condition of wear. You know, you upgrade something or enhance and another breaks to complain. I hope you find a replacenet head soon.

 

[rock2610D]

Arth31, I do not think turbo caused or contributed to this issue. Here is why:

1) Tractor ran just as good with turbo as with out. Just a little more power. Keep in mind I live at 8000 feet. 8 psi here is equivilant to 4 psi of boost at sea level. If a diesel cannot run on 4 psi boost the motors are not any good.

2) Cylinder 3 is in perfect condition. If turbo contributed or caused issue then all 3 cylinders would have been affected.

3) Turbos do not melt metal!! Fuel does! I have not changed fuel mixture therefore it should be running at factory settings.

4) If anything NOT having a turbo could have caused problem. IE unburnt fuel staying in cylinder after firing and being ignited on next cycle. In other words too much fuel because not enough air up here.

5) Tractor has since I purchased it started hard and would not start at all below 50 degrees without heat added. This implies someone sold me a tractor that needed alot of work.

6) The temps required to do this damage would have destroyed my turbocharger, and I would have seen a glowing red turbine side of turbo.

7) I did not upgrade my tractor! I simply put it back into standard factory settings. Granted there is a little more boost but these tractors run rich anyhow. And I rarely run tractor over 2200 rpm so boost stays about 5 psi.

8) I have put only 1 hour on tractor since turbo and only seen 8 psi boost for maybe 10 seconds. The rest of the time boost was 3 to 5 psi. I do not believe turbo in any way brought this to light or contributed.

9) If I would not have decided to adjust valves I would be still running the tractor.

10) If anything the turbo coverd up the problem by forcing cylinders to accept more air than the damaged portion could evacuate.

11) I believe I got a steel when I purchsed this tractor. A 4X4 2610 with 1300 hours for $5000.00. That includes a Allied 195 loader that retails for over $3000.00 new. Now I know why it was so cheap! Previous owner knew of the issue and unloaded it on me. I know this because cylinder #3 is like brand new. Looks like a new piston, liner, and rings. I think last owner did just enough to unload it. Not complaining just stating facts. I still like my Yanmar and will keep it and the turbo.

12) After I get it fixed and run it for 50 or so hours WITH TURBO I may just pull head off again and post photos here for everyone to see that it was not the turbo in any way shape or form.

 

[arthr31]

11) I believe I got a steel when I purchsed this tractor. A 4X4 2610 with 1300 hours for $5000.00. That includes a Allied 195 loader that retails for over $3000.00 new. Now I know why it was so cheap! Previous owner knew of the issue and unloaded it on me. I know this because cylinder #3 is like brand new. Looks like a new piston, liner, and rings. I think last owner did just enough to unload it. Not complaining just stating facts. I still like my Yanmar and will keep it and the turbo.

Hey Rock, I think you are right....Ya, turbo probably didn't do this, esp with the limited time you were running it, and also right, it wouldn't contribute to melting engine parts....

 

[rock2610D]

Got pistons out today. Rod bearings look almost new, no copper color at all. Liners are out too. Cy 1 and Cy2 liners have the same melted spots as the head did. IE the very top of liner where liner touches head gasket.

There was antifreeze and water still in the block. It would not all drain out when I drained block. When I pulled liner #1 some coolant was released and drained onto my crank, DANG IT! Cleaned as best I could but I still hate that.

Was able to clean top portion of block where top of liner seats. How do you get to the lower portion to clean it?

My manual says to paint (YES PAINT) the two areas of the new liners where they seat into the block, with oil based paint. And to dip the "PACKING"(I assume that mean o-rings) in the paint to just prior to installing new liner.
Is this what I need to do with my tractor. My manual is for a 336 not a 2610 and I do not want to make any mistakes.

Damaged 2 of the lower swirl chambers trying to get them out of the head. CY 1 and CY 2, CY 3 came out without damage. I think the two that got damaged were already on their last leg. TOO much heat or something, guess the same thing that happend to head, pistons, and liners.

Upper chambers are cheap, lower chambers are EXPENSIVE!!! Funny they do not appear to be much different. But a $60 difference in price is, in my opinion, rediculus!! I guess they know which parts are exposed the most and which goes out the most, and which gets damaged due to removal. So, they ask more for it. Another $150 dollars for new lower chambers!!! DARN IT!!