2810 power steering problems

[king1]

i had a buddy of mine stop over who knows a little more then i do on these steering units. we went through all the checks, re-aligned the front tires and have determined that nothing on the pitman arms or the steering box alignment is off. the slop in the tie rods, both inner and outer, is a little bit of a concern to him but not causing the problem. at full lock steer, left or right, when the steering cylinder rods are fully extended they seem to be going under full pressure forcing the rods to go under quite a load and making them want to bend out. right now the tractor is back to being mobile again, however i am not using it. if i were to turn the wheel all the way the rods could bend again and right now that is not a chance i want to take. it looks as if this had been a problem with this tractor before because the one cylinder that i have not replaced is a replacement from the previous owner. we are wondering if the pressure relief valve is hanging up and not allowing the pressure to blow off. it also seems, by our measurement, that the steering cyliders are about 1 to 2 inches to long. is that possible that they are wrong or is this a bad design by the manfacturer? i do know, that the one cylinder that i replaced, was from the dealer. could they have gotten it wrong? this is a series II 2810. could that be the difference? i lean towards no because of the research that i have done on the series II. it only seems to mean that the series II were diesels and that there was a different transmission available for this series of tractors other then the 8 speed that this one has. he has some really good guys that he deals with on fords and new hollands and he is going to do some more research. i am touching bases with all my resources as well and you guys have given me alot of help on this matter. any more info on this matter would be greatly appreciated. thanks again for all the help.

 

[dave1949]

What a puzzler. Logically, you would think the steering cylinders at full extension would not be long enough to damage something/themselves. That would be a pre-engineered breakage waiting to happen.

Maybe someone on the site who has an same or very close to same tractor could measure the length of their cylinders with the wheel full right and left?

Dave.

 

[king1]

the length of the cylinder body is the length of the rod inside, theroretically, so full all the way out is not necessary to determine the length at full stoke. i have never seen a hydaulic cylinder built any other way. this is a puzzler because of the location of the steering stops. with the wheel turned all the way one way or the other, touching off on both inner and outer steering stops is achived with about one to two inches of stroke on the cylinders left. now this is thinking opposite of normal thought. one would think that you would not want the cylinder rods to extend nearly all the way, meaning that the cylinders, are in fact, to short. this theory is somewhat negated by the fact that, as i mentioned, both the inner and outer steering stops are achieved. being to short would cause the cylinders to extend to about 98 to 99% of there maximun stroke allowing those cylinders to be at their weakest point allowing for failure (in this case bending) to happen. cylinder that were longer would not allow for so much of the rod exposed, keeping the rods more ridgid. the problem with this theory is that by putting longer cylinders on the maxiumum steering stops would not be achieved causing the cylinders to bottom out when they were all the way retracted, ruining the seals, and not hitting the steering stops. now the steering stops could be welded or shimmed up to fix this problem. thicker diameter rods would help as well. the exposed rods would not be so flimsy. that being said, there are no thicker or longer rods available for this tractor so that is not possible. anyways we are getting into the engineering aspect of this tractor and that is not going to fix the probelm. well, all i have to say is chew on that for a while and let me know if anyone has any ideas. its a good one and i'm sure one of you has an answer. this has turned into somewhat of a journal for me on this probelm and it has been great! i thank everyone for there help.

 

[dave1949]

I hear your frustration. Any measurements or info people can give you will be helpful.

Dave.

 

[king1]

its not so much frustration as it is troubleshooting with something that should just work. when this is all sorted out i will be overcome with joy. i enjoy troubleshooting but this is one of those things that seems to go back to the engineering of the steering components of this particular tractor, not to jade anyones ideas. thaks again.

 

[RickB]

You need to check the relief pressure in that system. Anything more than 850psi is too much for those components. The cylinders typically have more travel than the drag links can accommodate. The pump isn't supposed to be able to put enough force on the piston to cause the rod to bend.

 

[king1]

that is the first thing that i checked when the rods bent. 850 psi on the nose.

 

[dave1949]

Hi,

Are you having any luck? I am curious about this steering problem, always something to learn.
Dave.

 

[king1]

i have used the tractor to move some cow manure into the garden. i have ran it down the road a little bit. i used it to finish up burning brush on the back 40, where this problem all started, where it is a little wet (thats why i'm clearing brush). so far so good but i am being very careful not to turn the wheels anywhere near full turn. i have talked to a few other guys on this matter and most of them agree that is a solution for these tractors. its a bad design and some of them agree, as well as i do, to weld up the steering stops about a 1/2 in. on both sides. for now the tractor is going to be getting ready to move snow all winter and i am going to just be very careful with it. if anything else happens to it i'll update the problems as they happen. if anyone else has any ideas i'd love the advice. thanks again!

 

[king1]

well, it happened again. the right side steering cylinder bent. i wasn't even anywhere near full turn when it happened. i was actually scooping some topsoil out of a large pile. i was going straight into the pile. the only thing that i seemed to notice is that the steering seemed as if it was getting a little stiff about 5 to 10 minutes before it happened. well the only thing that seems to make any sense to me is that the pressure relief valve is not working properly causing pressure to build. its seems that this is an intermittent problem and that sort of points me to the pressure relief valve hanging up occasionally. i can't seem to think its anything else. any ideas?

 

[dave1949]

In reading the posts about snowplows and the crossover valve they use to allow unloading of the contracting cylinder when the plow snags something - could there be something similar somewhere in the power steering cricuits that is blocked or sticking?

I re-read your posts and if I understood it, this first happened not long after the front end went over a concrete lip. Something, crushed, squeezed, bashed in somewhere that is not evident?

I dunno, just throwing stuff on the wall
Dave.

 

[king1]

i've looked for something like that but the front end just went into a bunch of muck and the tractor didn't land on anything. that is a possibility though considering the brush hogging that i was doing with it when this whole thing started happening recently. i thought that i would have seen it though as much stuff as i've had apart.

 

[king1]

i straightened the right side steering cylinder yesterday. after getting it all back togather, it seems that only the right side wants to bend. the left side seems to be ok. i am wodering if anyone thinks that the steel of the rod is compromised causing it to want to bend? it still seems to me that the extension of the rod is too far though. obviously i don't understand what's the problem or it would be fixed already. now i've gotten to the point of frustration.

 

[tdobbs]

King I did you find any solution to the problem. My husband is having the same trouble now. Help going insane!!!

 

[tdobbs]

King I did you find any solution to the problem. My husband is having the same trouble now. Help going insane!!! :confused2:

 

[Jbrink64]

King I did you find any solution to the problem. My husband is having the same trouble now. Help going insane!!! :confused2:

New cylinders should have 5/8" rods, old and aftermarket units are 1/2". Pressure check the pump, make sure it's at 850 psi

 

[tdobbs]

Rods are 1/2 on the new cylinder. The left side rod is bending when turned all the way. Seems to be extending out to far. Measurements are about 1-2 inches too long. We have bought new cylinders and had new rods made. Got hay on the ground and need a solution. Anyone got any ideas.

 

[Jbrink64]

Rods are 1/2 on the new cylinder. The left side rod is bending when turned all the way. Seems to be extending out to far. Measurements are about 1-2 inches too long. We have bought new cylinders and had new rods made. Got hay on the ground and need a solution. Anyone got any ideas.

Either go with cylinders with 5/8" rods, or get a 650 psi relief valve and harder steering. The rods should be able to extend all the way out without bending. Also, make sure the cylinder ends are not binding, causing the rods to deflect.

 

[king1]

I got everything back togather about a year or so ago. I never found the problem????? the dealer wanted about $2000 to rebuild everything. The pressure refief was 850 psi and so on... I just don't turn the wheels all the way anymore. Its kind of a stupid solution but it works. i'm just very cautious about manuvering. i am of the opinion it is the pressure relief hanging up but i have not replaced it because its clean, tests good, etc. Who knows, it may be that these ps systems are poorly designed. those rods are small and extend way too far out for a tractor with a heavy diesel engine. Mine has a loader on top of that as well. Just too light weight a front end. my suggestion is to get another tractor without that design. just my 2 cents.