3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease?

   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #21  
My 10 hp is at 50 amps on single phase, and I need to start it wired as 480V then switch the windings to 240 v once its up to speed otherwise it blows the breaker. I then use the clutch to start/stop the blade.
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease?
  • Thread Starter
#22  
My 10 hp is at 50 amps on single phase, and I need to start it wired as 480V then switch the windings to 240 v once its up to speed otherwise it blows the breaker. I then use the clutch to start/stop the blade.

Wow- that must be an interesting switch setup to change between windings at startup.

Do you feel the 10hp electric has plenty of power? Or would you like more power? Have you always used an electric motor to drive your mill or did you start with a gas motor?
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #23  
Haven't read it all yet. You can make your own with the motor as an idler and a few capacitors. You may even be able to use the static converter you have and add the idler motor to it.
phaseconverter
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #24  
Its a series parallel switch. I read that in South America it is more common as they have 480 V single phase available for some loads. I've just got some contactors set up to do the same thing. It would be the same as putting a 120/240 motor in 240 wiring and starting on 120, then switching the windings to 120 configuration. I never switch back while the saw is on as I think it would backfeed some crazy spikes into the mill.

I feel the 10 hp is under powered. I have to keep my blades super sharp all the time and my logs clean or I can't cut at a reasonable speed. I have never had a gas motor on my mill. The 10 hp is fine on cuts less than 8", but cutting 20" wide slabs is painfully slow.

I wish it has about 40 hp I think lol.

Wow- that must be an interesting switch setup to change between windings at startup.

Do you feel the 10hp electric has plenty of power? Or would you like more power? Have you always used an electric motor to drive your mill or did you start with a gas motor?
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #25  
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #26  
a home made rotary converter- This is what I was considering using the 2 extra 7.5 hp 3 phase motors for (as rotary converters). So if I was to spin up the slave motors (one at a time), then I could gain back the 30% reduction and could run the 7.5 hp bandmill motor at its full rated capacity?

Do you have a guess as to how many amps of single phase your rotary converter uses by itself?

I was just considering how much I'd have to upsize the breaker and wire for this circuit if I was also running the two other 7.5hp motors as slave motors for the one on the bandmill and knowing the slaves' consumption would help me to calculate the increase in electrical load.

I use a Gerhardt-Werner Rotary converter (that I bought some years back from of all places Grizzly, the home of chi-com machines). Its a made in USA converter and it's never given me any issues. I have it mounted out of the way, overhead, in the trusses..... It's an ODP motor with integreated switch gear.

It's always idling, just produces the T3 leg and it's a 5hp so starting amps should be 23 and running should be about 15 on 230/1. Remember it's never loaded, just idling away.....

I stack my motors, that is, I start the converter and then a surface grinder which is 3 running HP. Then, unless I need the LeBlond Servo Shift (frequency controlled, 7.5 horsepower), I turn off the rotary and let the delta wound motor on the surface grinder provide the T3 excitation and frequency stabilization for the vertical mills. Each mill has a 1.5 HP Wye wound 3 phase motor so the grinder provides enough T3 current to run them.

Keep in mind that a heavily loaded 3 phase motor like a main drive on a lathe or a bandsaw, where the motor isn't starting in a freewheeling condition, requires even more starting amperage on all legs, T3 included.

Probably the only time I extended run the rotary is when the LeBlond is running. I need the frequency stabilization to run the 7.5 horsepower main drive and I have 5 at the rotary plus 3 on each surface grinder.

You can easily tell when there isn't adequate T3 current because when starting a 3 phase motor, it will come to speed slowly, a sure sign of a low T3 current.

A static converter provides T3 current with banked electrolytic capacitors providing the 'oooomph' to get the motor started, once started, the motor produces its own T3 but at a reduced current, thus the reduction (30% or so) in useable power.

You can actually start a 3 phase motor on single phase using what I call the Briggs and Stratton method. A rope wound around the shaft with a pull handle. Turn on the juice and pull start the motor. It's hard on the windings but it works.

I had the rotary before the LeBlond because I wasn't happy with a 30% reduction in useable power (that static conversion creates) plus the extra heat in the motor.
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease?
  • Thread Starter
#27  
I feel the 10 hp is under powered. I have to keep my blades super sharp all the time and my logs clean or I can't cut at a reasonable speed. I have never had a gas motor on my mill. The 10 hp is fine on cuts less than 8", but cutting 20" wide slabs is painfully slow.

I wish it has about 40 hp I think lol.

Slowzuki- Do you know what blade speed you are running? I am currently running about 6000 fpm and I am reading some info on the web that says I need to be closer to 4000-4500 fpm.



To all- thanks for all of the info and advice. It seems like the consensus was that I am only getting 50-70% of the nameplate hp by running this 3 phase motor on 220v single phase.

Since I am on a tight budget, I'll just use one of the spare 7.5hp 3 phase motors (along with some running capacitors and upgraded breakers/wire) as a rotary converter to power the 3rd leg (T3) of the 3ph bandmill motor. Then hopefully I can get close to the full rated hp out of it.
 
   / 3 phase motor on 220 volts single phase- % horsepower decrease? #28  
For the last 20 years I run my Bridgeport J head with a home made rotary convertor that is rated at 1 hp...just like the Bridgeport.

It has worked flawlessly...

The only thing I need to do is spin the shaft on the idler motor as I plug it in...

Never thought too much about it... I might just have gotten lucky?
 

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