3 pt Backhoe

[john_bud]

On tractor breakage....


Go to your local JD, Kubota, Case or Kioti dealer and ask them if they will warranty the tractor if you attach a 3pt mount backhoe. Pretty sure all manufacturers will void warranty if a 3pt back hoe is used. But check yourself.


If you watch a person operating the machine with a 3pt bh. Get to the back where you can see the axle. Now squat down and watch as the machine picks up a full bucket of wet soil and swings it 90 degrees to the side. The tire on the swing side will dip slightly. when the bucket dumps, the tire will pop back up. That motion is caused by the elastic flexure of the trans / differential. It's more difficult to see, but if you watch close you will also see a smaller dip and raise of the middle of the machine as the hoe digs and moves dirt. Those motions are not good. Over time, they start cracks and cracks only grow -- never shrink. That same motion is seen in all TLB's, even industrial ones with frames. But the stronger the frame, the less motion and the longer the life of the equipment. Obviously, no frame at all is the weakest configuration.

Industrial TLB's have in the maintenance schedule a close inspection of the frame, trans, diff and mounts for loose bolts AND CRACKS. This is done about every 500 hours or yearly which ever is shorter.

This is a TLB with frame and a cracked bell housing that was repaired and cracked again.




This is the same TLB with a cracked, repaired and cracked again differential housing.




I know because I am the one that had to do the repairs.

Both the trans case and the differential had to be discarded and replaced. Pretty sure continued operation would result in what the is known in Latin as, "Tractorus Breakus Apartus"

 

[Balerguy2]

Gus,

It is great you can figure out my convoluted syntax! We all learn here. We are all learners! TBN is a great resource. It is a Tractor World "Wikipedia" on steroids! If your new to Back Hoes remember they don't need much power to work well. I can't ever remember running mine at more than 1600 rpm............ that is <400 pto rpm, way way shy of 540.

 

[deeregus]

John bud; Looked over your pix w interest. U are a V determined man to repair such wreckage, and U also have watched it happen which few people have observed I think. In reading thew inputs here and in other places on how the stress fractures occur and what to do about it in the industry and by DIY guys like balerguy whose solution seems to actually work w/o a subframe, I'm being led to the conclusion that the failures are a function of 1) amt of use and how heavy the usage[abuse?] was and 2) how old the machine is w regard to inducing metal fatigue from maybe years of the flexing you're pointing out. Seems the two go together. In any case I'm not going to be using a 755 to rip out roadways and 3' tree stumps, but doing a bit more than the guy in the baby Kubota BH ad digging a 1' deep shrub planting hole in a pretty flower bed(Did he have white gloves on). I'm planting small trees in topsoil w some shale and clay deeper, and may dig up some root systems from some wild shrubs we cut down in a hedgerow that type of thing. Just home use on a 3 acre property. Again what I read here suggests the 755#7BH w 3pt hitch should be up to this L to Med digging if I set up the stabilizer links and take it a bit easy. However I hope I don't upset the guy who's going over the 755TLB to sell me after he sees your frightening pix of stress breaks and hears what my 25yr JD service guy told me. (I emailed him your comments to ponder just so he knows we aint just talking engineering theory here) I asked him to simply clean thoroughly the case area in question and examine for what could be hairline cracks. (Note that machinists magnaflux Al in heads etc to find cracks) I haven't paid him yet!! You betcha I'll be inspecting it before the $ hit the table. Again thx all of U for your guidance. This whole idea of supporting an animal like a BH w/o a sturdy frame is counter-intuitive, but there seem to be a mess of people who are doing it and some for as long as decades??! If the deal goes down I won't beat the crap out of it like the Terramite I rented to rip out the bigger root systems we took out, jerking and smashing it no mercy. Further comments on this interesting subject will be noted. I sure hope the guy who had this machine I want used it in just his flower beds. HA I'll soon know. Regards John Gus

 

[john_bud]

It sounds like you have a good grip on the pros and cons. Keeping within the machine capabilities is always helpful for maximum longevity.

Good luck with it no matter which direction you take.

 

[ZFish]

Sounds like there should not be a backhoe attached to any tractor. Maybe I should just start looking for backhoes

 

[deeregus]

Thx to all of you helping in my education w things CUT, I finally did the 3 hr drive to look over the 755 which wouldn't start and when it finally did was spewing ATF all over the place. Ante in leaking rams busted welds and much old looking hose you get the idea. I took back my deposit. Guy thought I was hard to deal w for commenting on lakes of ATF on the ground, 1/4 " of play in pins etc. It's been interesting. For $3K more I bought one of those little orange things with a NEW Woods BH [incl subframe installed]and 200 hrs on the tractor which will suit my digging needs just fine and even dig a 6' hole if I had to. Slower like me...Wife even likes it. I now have to sell the new turf tires I bought prematurely for the 755. 33x12.50-15 w rims Rr and 23x8.50-12 F all 6 ply. Thx again for watching my back to help me not make a $10K mistake!!!! Tractorology 101 here where some speak in "convoluted syntax" Sheesh Regards Gus

 

[jimpen]

I bought a Mahindra Max25 with BH, FEL and MMM.

The BH has it's own frame with the feet on it. I only have about 70 hours total, the BH being about 10 of that. So far I was able to dig a 10'x15' hole that was six feet deep. The last foot was mostly clay. I've also pulled out about 25 eight+ foot long fence posts that that started life as railroad ties. The secret was to put down the stabilizer feet and the rest of the tractor was essentially a counterweight and that's all.

Then this winter I hooked the chain to the car and the BH to pull it to the end of the driveway several times. No feet involved.

So the rules are essentially that I can't mow and have the BH on at the same time. But at the same time I don't need the full 3PH assembly to mow either. Dropping or attaching the BH is about a 15 minute job at most. And you have to know your limitations. :drool:

And then when you finally go to purchase the tractor write up the list of what you want to do before buying. Remember that you can get a ZTR for $5K or less usually. Then if you are mostly going to mow, is it worth to go up line to a tractor?

Then if you decide on the tractor make sure you get the FEL. That will at least help keep some of the resale value. Then the question of 3PH attachments because you can generally rent them as needed. So if you are going to plow up your .5 acre garden do you need a plow year round?

The BH is a cost decision because it's easy to finance with the tractor, but harder to finance later. But are you going to use it enough to overcome the cost of renting an excavator for a weekend. In my case -- I have numerous humps, lumps, and bumps that a FEL won't cut it. But if I only ever planned to dig a single burn pit it wouldn't have been worth the extra money.

Not discouraging -- just want you te be real. And feel free to ask TBN questions in your decision process. :welcome:

 

[Soundguy]

I have a woods 6500 hoe on the back of an old ford 850. I let it run at idle and it digs just fine. has a pto pump.. etc.. ho-made short subframe..e tc..

Gus,

It is great you can figure out my convoluted syntax! We all learn here. We are all learners! TBN is a great resource. It is a Tractor World "Wikipedia" on steroids! If your new to Back Hoes remember they don't need much power to work well. I can't ever remember running mine at more than 1600 rpm............ that is <400 pto rpm, way way shy of 540.

 

[Jw5875]

From 2007 TBN threads. Also google tractor cracked rear ends.
Even with a sub frame purchase, make sure that dealer is aware of the support plate that is needed.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/105425-l2800-cracked-rear-end.html

jw5875

 

[JerryG]

There has been several examples of broken tractors over the years here on TBN if you want to search. Most if not all compacts aren't beefy enough to take the stress of a hoe. That is why the manufactures won't warranty these accidents without having a sub-frame. The regular full size Ag utility tractor can usually get by with a 3 point hoe if recommendations are followed. Such as adding a lock out bracket if the tractor is equipped with draft control. Some have other issues that need to be address.