I'm still getting to know the old (1991) Kubota B6200 HST 4WD tractor we bought in early December. The 3 pt hitch is very slow to go up. The hydraulic fluids were changed about 37 hours ago, with a new filter installed at the same time. Hydraulic fluid level is good. Ran engine at 2500 rpm. What are the possible reasons for the slow lift? What issues should I investigate? Thanks to anyone who posts a reply. Peter
3 pt hitch slow to go up
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Gordon Gould
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You should try to get an operators manual (not a service manual) if you don't have one. They are not expensive and will really help you out with things like that. Try a dealer or messicks.com to find one. I'd try messicks first.
Thanks for the reply, Gordon. I have the Operator's and Workshop Manuals for this model. I didn't see anything in either of them of help with the speed problem, or reference to a valve. I'll have another look just to be sure.
Look for an adjustable stop(s) along the 3ph control lever. I'm not familiar with that particular tractor but that would be where I'd look. See if the stop or points are adjustable. Also when hydraulic fluid warms up to proper temperature the 3ph operates faster.
The valve under the seat (if you have one) would only adjust how fast the 3ph drops it would not effect the raising speed.
The valve under the seat (if you have one) would only adjust how fast the 3ph drops it would not effect the raising speed.
Gordon Gould
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OK I will try to help except my knowledge is limited to the basics and I am not familiar with your specific tractor. Maybe some one will bail me out before to long.
So you are saying changing the hydro oil and filter made no difference?
Do you have a FEL and is it also slow?
If you have a FEL does the pressure relief valve operate normally-you hear it?
Is the 3ph slow going up and down and what is on it (how much weight)
Does the speed get better when it warms up - How cold is it there?
Is the valve on the hydraulic block (if you have one) in the correct position?
Susspect a possible air leak on the pump input some where.
Try that for a start
So you are saying changing the hydro oil and filter made no difference?
Do you have a FEL and is it also slow?
If you have a FEL does the pressure relief valve operate normally-you hear it?
Is the 3ph slow going up and down and what is on it (how much weight)
Does the speed get better when it warms up - How cold is it there?
Is the valve on the hydraulic block (if you have one) in the correct position?
Susspect a possible air leak on the pump input some where.
Try that for a start
Yes, it has a FEL and it is fast in all directions. The only thing that's a bit odd is that the bucket goes limp when the engine is turned off. I'm told that's normal???
I didn't know that the FEL has a pressure relief valve. Where is it likely to be located and what does it sound like? I have no manual for the FEL.
The 3ph goes down quickly, but up very slowly. It behaves this way whether I have a plow or rototiller attached or nothing at all.
Warming up the machine makes no difference, nor does the RPM (1500 to 2500).
It's been hovering around 0 deg. C (32 F) here; not that cold.
I'll check the valve on the hydraulic block, assuming I have one. I'll have a peak in the manual.
What do you make of that?
I didn't know that the FEL has a pressure relief valve. Where is it likely to be located and what does it sound like? I have no manual for the FEL.
The 3ph goes down quickly, but up very slowly. It behaves this way whether I have a plow or rototiller attached or nothing at all.
Warming up the machine makes no difference, nor does the RPM (1500 to 2500).
It's been hovering around 0 deg. C (32 F) here; not that cold.
I'll check the valve on the hydraulic block, assuming I have one. I'll have a peak in the manual.
What do you make of that?
Gordon Gould
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What do you mean by "bucket goes limp". When you shut down with the bucket off the ground it should stay where it is and you should not be able to move anything by hand.
A slow leakdown over time (hrs prehaps) so the loader arms drop is normal.
You will hear the pressure relief valve start to bypass when a cylinder reaches it's end of travel and you continue to hold the valve open. The hydraulic fluid cant fill the cylinder anymore so pressure builds until the relief valve starts bypassing fluid back to the tank. To test it pick the bucket off the ground. Pull the FEL control towards you to curl the bucket. When the bucket is curled all the way back and hits the stop hold the valve open. You should here a definite change in the hydraulic sound like a groaning noise. This is not harmful for short periods of time.
If your bucket acts normal it does not sound like an air leak to me.
The hydraulic block is where all your FEL lines from the valve connect into the tractors hydraulic ports near the hydraulic filter.
As a long shot I would try reseating all the FEL lines on the valve. Rest bucket on the ground. Shut the engine down. Move the FEL control lever in all directions to release any pressure. Then disconnect and reconnect all the quick connects on the FEL valve that go to the arm and bucket cylinders.
Look over all hydraulic lines and make sure there are no restricts, bends or kinks.
Have you run the tractor in above freezing weather. If you havent I would try to get it some where warm to make sure you dont have an ice restriction somewhere. Assuming it was still slow at 40*.
A slow leakdown over time (hrs prehaps) so the loader arms drop is normal.
You will hear the pressure relief valve start to bypass when a cylinder reaches it's end of travel and you continue to hold the valve open. The hydraulic fluid cant fill the cylinder anymore so pressure builds until the relief valve starts bypassing fluid back to the tank. To test it pick the bucket off the ground. Pull the FEL control towards you to curl the bucket. When the bucket is curled all the way back and hits the stop hold the valve open. You should here a definite change in the hydraulic sound like a groaning noise. This is not harmful for short periods of time.
If your bucket acts normal it does not sound like an air leak to me.
The hydraulic block is where all your FEL lines from the valve connect into the tractors hydraulic ports near the hydraulic filter.
As a long shot I would try reseating all the FEL lines on the valve. Rest bucket on the ground. Shut the engine down. Move the FEL control lever in all directions to release any pressure. Then disconnect and reconnect all the quick connects on the FEL valve that go to the arm and bucket cylinders.
Look over all hydraulic lines and make sure there are no restricts, bends or kinks.
Have you run the tractor in above freezing weather. If you havent I would try to get it some where warm to make sure you dont have an ice restriction somewhere. Assuming it was still slow at 40*.
jimmer2880
Platinum Member
Is your FEL a kubota brand loader, or an aftermarket? If it's a kubota brand, does it look like it's been on the tractor it's entire life?
The reason why I'm asking, is that, sometimes, when people put FEL's on tractors, they don't always plumb them correctly. When they don't, 3pt performance is sometimes sacrificed.
The reason why I'm asking, is that, sometimes, when people put FEL's on tractors, they don't always plumb them correctly. When they don't, 3pt performance is sometimes sacrificed.
J_J
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This is a good example of where a hyd pressure gage installed would help with trouble shooting.
If you raise a load , and turn off the engine, does the bucket instantly dump the load, or is it a slow dump?
FEL valve should lock the load with the levers in neutral whether the engine is on or off. Expect some leak down.
If the gage was installed in the pressure port of the FEL valve, anytime you activated a cyl, you could see the pressure the system is generating. If the relief valves never operate, then the fluid is leaking from the valve or bypassing in the cyl.
You can check each of the cyl to determine the problem.
Does the 3pt lift a full load, and does the relief operate. Some components in the 3pt might be sticking. Might need removal, inspection, and cleaning or replacement.
The knob under the seat just sets the implement drop speed.
Your FEL valve should have a relief valve close to the IN or pressure port.
Picture is just for illustration.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/MorePhotos.asp?ITEM=9-7976
Here is a relief valve on a Prince valve .
If you raise a load , and turn off the engine, does the bucket instantly dump the load, or is it a slow dump?
FEL valve should lock the load with the levers in neutral whether the engine is on or off. Expect some leak down.
If the gage was installed in the pressure port of the FEL valve, anytime you activated a cyl, you could see the pressure the system is generating. If the relief valves never operate, then the fluid is leaking from the valve or bypassing in the cyl.
You can check each of the cyl to determine the problem.
Does the 3pt lift a full load, and does the relief operate. Some components in the 3pt might be sticking. Might need removal, inspection, and cleaning or replacement.
The knob under the seat just sets the implement drop speed.
Your FEL valve should have a relief valve close to the IN or pressure port.
Picture is just for illustration.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/MorePhotos.asp?ITEM=9-7976
Here is a relief valve on a Prince valve .
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Gordon Gould
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If it was mine and I hadn't found something definitive or wrong yet I think I would remove two loader hoses at the block and plug the block ports with male plugs. I would remove the pump output hose which goes to the IN port of the FEL valve and I would remove block inlet hose which should come from the POWER BEYOND port of FEL valve. You can leave the tank hose connected. Then turn the block valve to the NO LOADER position. Start the tractor and try the 3ph. If the problem is gone the trouble is in the loader valve or loader plumbing as mentioned by jimmer. If you still have the problem it is in the 3ph.
If you try this make sure to relieve all pressure before any disconnects are made and have no weight or impliment on the 3ph with the bucket flat on the ground.
You should find these connection locations in your book.
If you try this make sure to relieve all pressure before any disconnects are made and have no weight or impliment on the 3ph with the bucket flat on the ground.
You should find these connection locations in your book.
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Thanks for your replies, guys. Helpful. I won't be back at the tractor until February, and I had little time to work on it last weekend. Mostly focused on replacing aging cooling system hoses and a broken zerk. I'll try to answer some of your questions in the meantime.
The FEL is a Kubota B1630B that was sold installed on the tractor. For the
1st 13-14 years of its life, the tractor was operated by the government liquor commission here in Newfoundland only to clear snow from the loading bays and spread salt on the parking lot (using an electric salt spreader). No 3ph and PTO use. The next three years were in the hands of a retired chap who used it to clear snow from his driveway and that of a neighbour. Again, no 3ph and PTO use. The last owner, before us, used it for light farming with a heavy bottom plow, rototiller, and mower. He put about 34 hours on the tractor, having decided to terminate his experiment with farming (a retirement pastime).
Re. the FEL bucket, when I raise the bucket, and turn off the engine, the bucket dumps in about 5 seconds. This is not a slow leakdown.
That's about all I can say at the moment. I'll have a hard look at it in February. Peter
The FEL is a Kubota B1630B that was sold installed on the tractor. For the
1st 13-14 years of its life, the tractor was operated by the government liquor commission here in Newfoundland only to clear snow from the loading bays and spread salt on the parking lot (using an electric salt spreader). No 3ph and PTO use. The next three years were in the hands of a retired chap who used it to clear snow from his driveway and that of a neighbour. Again, no 3ph and PTO use. The last owner, before us, used it for light farming with a heavy bottom plow, rototiller, and mower. He put about 34 hours on the tractor, having decided to terminate his experiment with farming (a retirement pastime).
Re. the FEL bucket, when I raise the bucket, and turn off the engine, the bucket dumps in about 5 seconds. This is not a slow leakdown.
That's about all I can say at the moment. I'll have a hard look at it in February. Peter
Arkie Jim
Member
My Satohs has a knob under the seat that adjust the lifting actions of the lift. I can speed it up or slow it down and not have to hold on to the lever.
Gordon Gould
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Thanks for reporting back to us.
When you get back to it I would zero in on the FEL loader valve/pressure relief area. I would consider getting it rebuilt or replaced. Could be a cylinder problem also. Let us know what the final verdict is.
When you get back to it I would zero in on the FEL loader valve/pressure relief area. I would consider getting it rebuilt or replaced. Could be a cylinder problem also. Let us know what the final verdict is.
Another possible source of the problem is the two transmission fluid strainers built into this machine (see appended photos). It has two of these strainers in addition to a screw-in filter cartridge. "Service Department Vic" from OrangeTractorTalks says these strainers get badly clogged with muck but are rarely serviced. So I will try cleaning them first, and if that doesn't work, I'll try the various suggestions posted to this forum. Thanks again. Peter
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Gordon Gould
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Sounds like the smart thing to do. Let us know if that fixes it so we can learn from your experience. I was thinking it would not be in the suction or the pump because that would make your loader slow too. But like I said, I only know enough to be dangerous. Good luck.
Regarding the rapid leakdown (i.e. 5 seconds) of the FEL bucket when the engine is turned off, the parts guy at my local Kubota dealership (who has extensive mechanics experience, mostly on JD tractors) says the problem could be leaking seals in the two FEL hydraulic cylinders. What do you think of that theory?
leonz
Super Member
Its either a or weak/or broken spring or bad spool as the oil flow would keep the spool centered under pump flow and if the spring in the bucket control spool is weak or broken anytime the oil flow stops the spool will react to the weight of the bucket itself and the oil will leak out.
