Rotary Cutter 305 Bush Hog 5'

[Farmwithjunk]

I just have to ask though.....

What makes the 305/306 better than a KK HD.

Dont get me wrong, I'd opt for the BH brand everytime, but looking at the pics and specs, they look pretty similar. As far as deck and construction, the KK actually appears a bit better IMO. It has I-beam siderails vs the BH's 1/4" plate. The KK is 3/16 (.1875") steel deck vs the BH's 7ga (.179") deck. And just something about the 3PH looks a tad stouter as well.

The ONLY way I see the BH being better (and this is probabally what you are talking about) is the gearbox and PTO. The 305 has a 80 HP gearbox vs the KK's 60HP box. And the 306 has a 90HP box vs the KK 6'ers 60HP or optionaal 80HP box.

I am not trying to persuade or sell anyone on the KK HD, or trying to start an argument, just pointing out that there is a HUGE difference in just the standard KK (which is nothing spectacuar), and the HD KK. That is why I compared it to the HD, which looks like a very nice peice in its own rights. And a price to boot.:confused2:

Take 'em out and use 'em, side by side, in extreme conditions, and see which one PERFORMS the best/longest. No contest. Not even close.

It seems so many folks get caught up in "manufacturers specs" , forgetting the "in the field" hands on results. Specifications, hype, manufacturers propaganda, theories, and "almost's" don't "cut it" (pardon the pun) I couldn't care any less what a piece of equipment does "on paper".....It's "in the field" where I draw my comparisons. Spec sheets are for debating on internet forums. Proven longevity, quality and design integrety is for drawing conclusions as to which is the best (in my eyes)

I own and operate a mowing business where we mow highway right-of-ways and large tracts of undeveloped property owned by real estate companies. We cut LITERALLY thousands of acres in a season. (in some of the toughest conditions you're apt to ever run across) The mowers we use get more hours in a typical summer than most individuals put on all the mowers they'll ever own in a lifetime. (Total combined hours of entire mowing fleet last year was well over 12,000hours) You simply will NOT see ANY of us using "economy" mowers similar to a KK, even their heavy duty models. And it ISN'T because we haven't tried less expensive mowers. They just don't hold up to the constant abuse. A friend that's in the same business I'm in TRIED KK heavy duty mowers a couple seasons back. After several main bearing failures, a couple tail wheel assemblies getting ripped off the mowers, twisted 3-point hitch structural members, and a number of bent/buckled decks, he gave up and went back to Bush Hog and Rhino commercial mowers. (As a valid point of comparison, look at the 3-point structure on a KK heavy duty mower, then go look at the same parts on the BH305. Tell me they're "almost the same" now....Not hardly..... Not even in the same league.....

Look at what sort of mowers MOST highway mowing contractors, municipalities, or commercial mowers use. In probably 95% of the cases, it'll be One of several brands that fall under the "Alamo Group". (ie Bush Hog, Shulte, Alamo, Rhino) We're in it to make money. BEst way to "make money" is to "keep the money you earn". While to some, that may mean buying low cost equipment, most of us buy equipment that will last under the harshest of use. You simply WILL NOT get those results from a low priced "economy mower".

For the average Joe, who might mow his 20 acres 3 or 4 times a year, a KK "heavy duty" mower migh be the hot set up. For the guy who's going to mow hundreds, maybe even thousands of acres in a lifetime, and doesn't want to be constantly replacing mowers, it takes a little more of a true commercial grade mower. And if I could buy a "mid quality" medium duty mower claimed as a "heavy duty" model, OR, a TRUELY heavy duty mower from a brand that has a proven track record in extreme duty mowing, and I could get that commercial grade mower FOR LESS MONEY, I know which way I'd be thinking.....

Also to be considered (in my case anyway) is how a mower holds up to use by an operator WHO DOESN'T OWN THE MOWER....They don't baby equipment like an individual who owns the mower he's using. Anything less than the best just doesn't make the grade.

And for the record, not ALL mowers are created equal when it comes down to quality of cut. I've not seen a KK mower to date that will CONSISTANTLY mow with the quality of cut (in harsh conditions) that I HAVE to have in order to stay in business.

Now, let's say I have one KK heavy duty mower and one BH305. Both break a part. I can go to literally hundreds of farm/commercial equipment dealers in the US and get parts for Bush Hog. King Kutter is decent with direct shipping of replacement parts, but you do NOT have outlets all over creation that carry that brand and have overnight availability to get parts. To many of us, that fast turn around on parts is equally important with initial quality.

If that doesn't answer your question(s), let me know. I've got a laundry list of other valid reasons why these aren't comparable mowers.

 

[LD1]

a couple tail wheel assemblies getting ripped off the mowers, twisted 3-point hitch structural members, and a number of bent/buckled decks, he gave up and went back to Bush Hog and Rhino commercial mowers. (As a valid point of comparison, look at the 3-point structure on a KK heavy duty mower, then go look at the same parts on the BH305. Tell me they're "almost the same" now....Not hardly..... Not even in the same league.....

I have looked at them VERY closely.

While I will admit that I dont have any hands on experience with the KK HD mower, I do have a 306. And yes it is built heavy, but nothing spectacular. I actually think the KK HD looks to be built heavier in the tailwheel, AND 3PH department. As well as having an "ever-so-slightly" thicker deck. 3/16" vs 7ga.

The KK HD 6' hog actually weighs in at 70lbs more than the 306 mower. That is why I am saying the longevity must come from the moving components, like PTO, gearbox, etc. Because looking at how the KK HD is built, and comparing it to my 306, if I were to do something that would damage the KK, it would certainly do just as much damage to my 306. But hey, we are just two people arguing. Let others form their own opinion. I just dont see how the "structure" parts of the 305/306 are any better than a KK HD. That is why it was chosen for comparison.

And I dont see how one will cut better than the other either:confused2:
rotary cutters arent rocket science. If they spin the same size blade (both the KK and BH use 1/2" x 4" blades) the same RPM, what makes one cut better than the other????

Pics for reference. What makes my 306's 3PH and tailwheel so much stronger than the KK's in your opinion??? I just dont see it.

LINK King Kutter Heavy Duty Kutter

MY bushhog 306

 

[RoyJackson]

Take 'em out and use 'em, side by side, in extreme conditions, and see which one PERFORMS the best/longest. No contest. Not even close.

Very good post, Brother!!!!

 

[RickB]

I have looked at them VERY closely.

While I will admit that I dont have any hands on experience with the KK HD mower, I do have a 306. And yes it is built heavy, but nothing spectacular. I actually think the KK HD looks to be built heavier in the tailwheel, AND 3PH department. As well as having an "ever-so-slightly" thicker deck. 3/16" vs 7ga.

The KK HD 6' hog actually weighs in at 70lbs more than the 306 mower. That is why I am saying the longevity must come from the moving components, like PTO, gearbox, etc. Because looking at how the KK HD is built, and comparing it to my 306, if I were to do something that would damage the KK, it would certainly do just as much damage to my 306. But hey, we are just two people arguing. Let others form their own opinion. I just dont see how the "structure" parts of the 305/306 are any better than a KK HD. That is why it was chosen for comparison.

And I dont see how one will cut better than the other either:confused2:
rotary cutters arent rocket science. If they spin the same size blade (both the KK and BH use 1/2" x 4" blades) the same RPM, what makes one cut better than the other????

Pics for reference. What makes my 306's 3PH and tailwheel so much stronger than the KK's in your opinion??? I just dont see it.

LINK King Kutter Heavy Duty Kutter

MY bushhog 306

Your 306 has the light category 1 3PT hitch a-frame. Most sold around here have the dual category (1&2) a-frame which is about triple the size and strength of the cat 1.
One needs to compare material thicknesses of parts like the tailwheel yoke, yoke shaft diameter, wheel axle diameter and such to answer definitively. I don't have ready access to a HD KK. Cut quality is determined at least in part by blade tip speed, not input shaft speed.

 

[DarkBlack]

I have no dog in this fight....just thought I'd pass on a diiferent view:
Most people I've met, including mechanics, don't really know the vast, but unfortunately fading, and soon to be lost and forgotton art of steel making. To say steel from on manufacture can be different...is an understatement. I reccomend to anyone who has in interest in machinery to read up on the net about the diieferrent steels. From cold roll to hot roll. From q6 to a6, air harden, oil harden...hardening with/without temper. It's all out there... for free on the net for anyone who wishes to educate themselves. Trust me, If you read about it for a week you will then be enlightened to how 800lb of low grade iron with no heat treatment, and no tempering is not much stronger than bamboo. You will then understand that a higher grade steel( and yes more expensive) that has been through the correct heat treatments will be - yes it's true- 1.5-4 times stronger. Better alloys and heat treating cost money, and unfortunately for America, pretty much only government contracts require high quality alloys and treatments. Imagine gluing 800lb of sand together in the shape of an implement. That gives you a visual of what an 800lb tractor implement made of cheap steal is all about. Todays hot 'lowest price sells' market has influenced factories to abondon good metalurgy, and use the cheapeast metals and skip the heat treatments. If customers demanded to know the alloy of steel and what hardness it was hardened/and or tempered to, the public would understand why one brand was better. The way it is now, people think if it weighs the same, and has the same dimensions, then it must be as good. Kind of sad for our country if you think about it.

 

[RickB]

I have no dog in this fight....just thought I'd pass on a diiferent view:
Most people I've met, including mechanics, don't really know the vast, but unfortunately fading, and soon to be lost and forgotton art of steel making. To say steel from on manufacture can be different...is an understatement. I reccomend to anyone who has in interest in machinery to read up on the net about the diieferrent steels. From cold roll to hot roll. From q6 to a6, air harden, oil harden...hardening with/without temper. It's all out there... for free on the net for anyone who wishes to educate themselves. Trust me, If you read about it for a week you will then be enlightened to how 800lb of low grade iron with no heat treatment, and no tempering is not much stronger than bamboo. You will then understand that a higher grade steel( and yes more expensive) that has been through the correct heat treatments will be - yes it's true- 1.5-4 times stronger. Better alloys and heat treating cost money, and unfortunately for America, pretty much only government contracts require high quality alloys and treatments. Imagine gluing 800lb of sand together in the shape of an implement. That gives you a visual of what an 800lb tractor implement made of cheap steal is all about. Todays hot 'lowest price sells' market has influenced factories to abondon good metalurgy, and use the cheapeast metals and skip the heat treatments. If customers demanded to know the alloy of steel and what hardness it was hardened/and or tempered to, the public would understand why one brand was better. The way it is now, people think if it weighs the same, and has the same dimensions, then it must be as good. Kind of sad for our country if you think about it.

Excellent points all. One very inportant but indiscernable difference could easily be the metallurgy of the gearbox downshaft and input shaft. Differences in these two parts could have permanent impacts on the serviceablilty of a machine and reputation of an entire brand.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Your 306 has the light category 1 3PT hitch a-frame. Most sold around here have the dual category (1&2) a-frame which is about triple the size and strength of the cat 1.
One needs to compare material thicknesses of parts like the tailwheel yoke, yoke shaft diameter, wheel axle diameter and such to answer definitively. I don't have ready access to a HD KK. Cut quality is determined at least in part by blade tip speed, not input shaft speed.

Blade tip speed is important, but only part of the story. Blade shape (ie lift type blades) have a significant effect in the quality of cut. So does deck configuration. To mow clean at a reasonable ground speed, one needs good flow of clippings, and to make the hi lift blades work well, you need good air movement. There's also the part about having the mower set up correctly. That's not a brand specific problem usually...

As mowers are being designed and built different levels of engineering go into the "finer points". To reach lower price points, engineering and material cost being lower wins out over being a top end piece of equipment in most cases. (But not a "hard and fast rule" by any stretch...)

Now that you mention it, I've never seen a 300 or 400 Bush Hog WITHOUT the CATI/II hitch.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I have no dog in this fight....just thought I'd pass on a diiferent view:
Most people I've met, including mechanics, don't really know the vast, but unfortunately fading, and soon to be lost and forgotton art of steel making. To say steel from on manufacture can be different...is an understatement. I reccomend to anyone who has in interest in machinery to read up on the net about the diieferrent steels. From cold roll to hot roll. From q6 to a6, air harden, oil harden...hardening with/without temper. It's all out there... for free on the net for anyone who wishes to educate themselves. Trust me, If you read about it for a week you will then be enlightened to how 800lb of low grade iron with no heat treatment, and no tempering is not much stronger than bamboo. You will then understand that a higher grade steel( and yes more expensive) that has been through the correct heat treatments will be - yes it's true- 1.5-4 times stronger. Better alloys and heat treating cost money, and unfortunately for America, pretty much only government contracts require high quality alloys and treatments. Imagine gluing 800lb of sand together in the shape of an implement. That gives you a visual of what an 800lb tractor implement made of cheap steal is all about. Todays hot 'lowest price sells' market has influenced factories to abondon good metalurgy, and use the cheapeast metals and skip the heat treatments. If customers demanded to know the alloy of steel and what hardness it was hardened/and or tempered to, the public would understand why one brand was better. The way it is now, people think if it weighs the same, and has the same dimensions, then it must be as good. Kind of sad for our country if you think about it.

Bingo......

 

[LD1]

Now that you mention it, I've never seen a 300 or 400 Bush Hog WITHOUT the CATI/II hitch.

Did you look at the pic of mine???

Now do you understand where I was comming from. Gearboxes, pto, and blades aside, the KK HD looks stronger in the tailwheel and 3PH areas than mine. That is what I am trying to point out.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Did you look at the pic of mine???

Now do you understand where I was comming from. Gearboxes, pto, and blades aside, the KK HD looks stronger in the tailwheel and 3PH areas than mine. That is what I am trying to point out.

And the point I'm making is, looks don't tell the story. Neither does weight, dimensions, nor any other factoid from a spec sheet. What DOES matter (to quite a few of us it seems) is which one is significantly more durable under heavy use, which one performs the best, and which one is capable of making us the most money over it's usable lifespan.