318 Traction Problems

monster318 · Feb 14, 2015

Hello, This issue has had me stumped for a few years now and I am gonna run this past you guys and see if you have any ideas for me..

I myself own a 1986 318 w/ 43G engine...have both a 54'' blade and snow blower attachment for it for the winter...I have tire chains, rear weight bracket, w/ 6 suitcase weights on back, and wheel weights in the wheels....thing cuts through snow like a hot knife through butter. No issues there. Now my grandfather owns a 1991 318 W/ P218 motor in it...54'' front blade, chains, weight BOX with 280 LBS of weight in it..plus the weight of the box itself...NO Wheel weights...The thing will not go through snow any where near the way mine does, he is constantly getting stuck or spinning the wheels. I have driven it myself trying to plow his driveway and a few neighbors driveways...and it is a very noticeable difference...it feels like the way mine did before I had any weight on it...but he has almost the equivalent weight that I do.

Could somehow the WEIGHT BOX be distributing the weight differently then a bracket that holds suitcase weights does?

This has been going on for awhile now and I am out of options to figure out why there is so much of a difference??

kevin37b · Feb 14, 2015

That is strange .Wheel weights should not make that much difference with all that other weight hanging off the back . Does he per chance have bar tires on the rear ? Chains do not work well on them . Got me puzzled too .

jsb2b · Feb 14, 2015

If everything is the same except the weight box, and the tires are the same tread design(assume turfs), then put your wheel weights on his 318 and see what happens. The weight box would tend to lift the front of the tractor if anything. Are his chains the same as yours?

beenthere · Feb 14, 2015

Does your 318 have fluid in the tires and his not?

monster318 · Feb 14, 2015

Yes, both have turf tires on them (I use bar tires in summer and switch back to turf in winter), my chains are regular car chains that have been cut down to fit, his are actual tractor tire chains but both are very close to the same size and the cross pieces are the same distance apart on each. No fluid in either set of tires

Yellowfever440 · Feb 14, 2015

If you have 6 suitcase weights and wheel weights, depending on the wheel weight size and the bracket weight you have atleast 252 lbs in suitcase weights plus the bracket and 110 lbs in wheel weights which is 362 lbs he has maybe 300 lbs. Also maybe the float on his tractor isn't working the way it should so he has more resistance on the plow.

Also both are on concrete or rock driveways?

monster318 · Feb 16, 2015

Ok,I have attached some photos of the weight box to see if you guys think it could be possibly hanging too far off the back of the tractor. I know in theory it would actually act as leverage and add more down pressure to back of tractor but who knows at this point...

I added 60 more pounds of weight to weight box today, which brought me to the point where the front wheels have trouble steering cause their is barely any weight on them...we got about 3 inches of snow over the past day and have a couple areas of deeper snow where it drifted...I was plowing an asphalt driveway this morning, the tractor would push the snow just about till the time you would see the snow start to roll over infront of the blade then it would light the wheels up and stop dead in its tracks..The driveway has a very slight incline, so much that my sports car could have made it up it with the snow still on driveway. I was plowing down the driveway...when the tractor would stop, I would lift the blade...and the tractor WOULD NOT back itself up...even with the wheels on bare asphalt, it would just spin...I had to get my truck 3 times and pull it back up driveway cause it would not do it on its own....

beenthere · Feb 16, 2015

then it would light the wheels up and stop dead in its tracks.

Don't know what this means. Not getting a good picture of what is happening here. Maybe just reached the limit on snow and ice?

JerryK · Feb 16, 2015

One thing you need is better chains. JD chains should have a cross chain every other link... about 3" between each cross chain. At least that is what I have on my Onan powered 1991 420. I used to have 4 one hundred pound Allis Chambers weights on mine, and it would dig in until it stalled out unless lots of ice. Only put two on this year and have got stuck once... Good luck, Jerry...

monster318 · Feb 16, 2015

These are JD Chains...we took every other cross link out of these chains and found it did help a good deal on the asphalt. Instead of having the wheel ride completely on chain, it now goes chain, rubber, chain, rubber, chain as it spins and it was a good deal of improvement...

monster318 · Feb 16, 2015

beenthere said:
Don't know what this means. Not getting a good picture of what is happening here. Maybe just reached the limit on snow and ice?

I meant it would just start spinning wheels...and tractor would not move foreword anymore

JerryK · Feb 16, 2015

Also, besides missing more than half of your cross chains, your chains look a little on the ' tight ' side. You want them tight enough that they won't come off, but loose enough that each cross chain can flop a little as it hits the ground.... at least, that is what I have always heard and tried to live by.. If the cross chains are held to the tire real tight, they tend to also fill with snow and do not self clean as they fly around the tire during use...

Yellowfever440 · Feb 16, 2015

I was always told to air the tire down and put the chains on snug then air the tire back up so they are tight because they can tear up your tires.

beenthere · Feb 16, 2015

Not the way I run my chains.
They are loose as put on by hand, just so they stay on, and flail out when going over the top to clean out packed snow, ice, or mud.

But guess to each their own likes. Whatever feels good, and easy to try it a different way to see if one likes it better.

And I never put belts, or bungie cords, or straps, or springs on the outside. If any of those are needed, in my opinion, the chains are not cut to fit that tire/wheel. Time to cut them to fit.

kevin37b · Feb 17, 2015

Are the front wheels hanging up by chance ?

Amvcane · Feb 17, 2015

I don't know how convenient it is, but, as Jsb2b questioned, have you tried your wheel weights on his tractor? Or remove the weights from yours. I feel it is extremely important to have the weight distribution the same on both tractors in order to compare apples to apples. Remove every variable possible. Then the said problem, or unique characteristic will reside within the individual tractor.

Sheldon Hamblin · Feb 17, 2015

I have a 310 I specifically purchased for the snowblower on the front, as well as the mower deck.
Had the chains and blower installed at the JD shop when I bought it.
I found the JD chains slipped even on hard ground, and couldn't move on snow or ice. This was with the 2 suitcase weights as recommended. I added 100 pounds more, not much improvement. When I swapped out the tire chains for an old set of pick up truck chains it made all the difference in the world.
The difference in chains was the JD rode entirely on chain. The truck chains a v- bar reinforced and are spaced so it gets a good bite going from tire to chain. Works great now.

monster318 · Feb 17, 2015

Sheldon Hamblin said:
I found the JD chains slipped even on hard ground, and couldn't move on snow or ice. This was with the 2 suitcase weights as recommended. I added 100 pounds more, not much improvement. When I swapped out the tire chains for an old set of pick up truck chains it made all the difference in the world.
The difference in chains was the JD rode entirely on chain. The truck chains a v- bar reinforced and are spaced so it gets a good bite going from tire to chain. Works great now.

Thats what I was trying to say is the reason I took every other cross link out, so it rides tire,chain, tire, chain...it made an improvement on MY 318. Also MINE has truck chains that are cut down to fit the wheels. I might have to do some chain swapping and see what kind of difference I see.

Thanks

beenthere · Feb 18, 2015

I suspect it is the V-bars that give the extra traction.

monster318 · Feb 22, 2015

OK SO I MIGHT HAVE MADE A BREAK THROUGH!!!

Today after snowblowing my driveway...I took the suitcase weights off my 318 and took them up to grandfathers house...I removed all the weight he had in his box and hung my weights on the front of his box..directly next to the bracket that attaches it to tractor. See Picture below...

And it went great! Almost thought for a minute I was driving my tractor again....I put myself in the same situations that I got stuck in before..and didnt even spin...

Then I came back to the garage...put the weights INSIDE the box....Went back out...and tractor acted the exact same way it did with his weight in....lots of wheel spin...and I had to take a suitcase weight out of the box because the front wheels would not turn tractor at all..it would just lift them right off ground...This is where I felt I was on to something...

So I came back to garage, Put all his weight back in the box and hung the suitcase weights the same way I did in the first picture...and went back out....then it was unstoppable and kept the front wheels planted to the ground....So what I think is going on is that because his box was hanging so far off the back of the tractor that it was not allowing me to put any more weight in the box because the leverage it was getting, wanted to pull the front of the tractor up and there wasnt much weight actually pushing down on the back of the tractor...

This summer I am going to cut the box basically in half...keep it as close to the tractor as possible..weld it back up just wide enough to fit the biggest weights in it we have....which should allow me to put more weight in it..without having it try to do a wheelie on me...