Was the oil level high? About the only way for diesel to get into the crankcase is through a bad injection pump. The fuel valve on the filter is only for turning fuel off while changing the filter. Should not have to be closed at any other time.
336D
- Thread starter Vern
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Oil was a little high 1/2" over the full mark without screwing the dipstick in. It is still smoking too much - blue - and smells like diesel.
If bad injector - how would I check? can it be rebuilt or need a new one?
Noticed this evening the sparks we coming out of the exhaust, not over heating. I think it is running to rich.
Oldest son on the tractor.
Note to self - When you take the fuel bowl off to clean it - bleed the bowl before you try to start it.
If bad injector - how would I check? can it be rebuilt or need a new one?
Noticed this evening the sparks we coming out of the exhaust, not over heating. I think it is running to rich.
Oldest son on the tractor.
Note to self - When you take the fuel bowl off to clean it - bleed the bowl before you try to start it.
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Johndeere3720
Padawan Tractor Learner, Advertiser
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If the injectors are wore out look into buying a new pump vs/ having the original one rebuilt. I was in a similar position with a different tractor and for a little more the new pump was more practical. Blue smoke is the engine burning excessive oil, it could be a result of worn rings allowing your engine oil to get past the rings and on top of the cylinder. That or when the oil warms up it expands and forces itself past the rings to the top of the cylinder. I would drain a little bit of the oil out and see if the blue smoke goes away. Have a merry Christmas everyone! 
Good afternoon
I checked the Temp in the exhaust manifold and each injector where the line threads in:
After several minutes
Rear exhaust - 219 rear injector 88
Middle exhaust 171, middle injector 78
Front exhaust 158, front injector 83
After about 20 minutes
Rear exhaust 229, rear injector 133
Middle exhaust 213, middle injector 113
front exhaust 186, front injector 120
When I loosened the bolts on top of the injector at first a little dribbled out and then nothing on rear and middle, front dribbled. cracking the bolts did not change the RPM's on any cylinder.
Looks like I have issues with either the pump or the injectors - any adviceon how to proceed?
Thanks
Vern
I checked the Temp in the exhaust manifold and each injector where the line threads in:
After several minutes
Rear exhaust - 219 rear injector 88
Middle exhaust 171, middle injector 78
Front exhaust 158, front injector 83
After about 20 minutes
Rear exhaust 229, rear injector 133
Middle exhaust 213, middle injector 113
front exhaust 186, front injector 120
When I loosened the bolts on top of the injector at first a little dribbled out and then nothing on rear and middle, front dribbled. cracking the bolts did not change the RPM's on any cylinder.
Looks like I have issues with either the pump or the injectors - any adviceon how to proceed?
Thanks
Vern
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I don't want to say anything that would cause you to buy a new injection pump. Just out of curiosity I checked my temperature right on top of each injector. Starting at back to front, 120, 114,110. I really think fan blowing may cause them to get a little cooler toward the front. Checked all three injectors right at the base and got 124, 124, 126. Mine is a ym2002d. Smaller engine than yours.
Went to the other side and checked head temperature just barely above the very top of the exhaust manifold. From rear to front, 211,213,221. I believe exhaust manifold picks up heat as it all travels forward.
What does all that say. I don't know. I also noticed you can get considerable temperature variations by moving the laser a slight bit so it is very important to pinpoint the same location on each cylinder or injector.
If there is indeed diesel in your crankcase I would still lean toward the pump being bad. Am I recommending you go buy a new pump? NO!
I have to wonder what is causing the sparks to come out the exhaust.
Did all this with engine running around 2000rpm and after about 20 minutes of run.
Went to the other side and checked head temperature just barely above the very top of the exhaust manifold. From rear to front, 211,213,221. I believe exhaust manifold picks up heat as it all travels forward.
What does all that say. I don't know. I also noticed you can get considerable temperature variations by moving the laser a slight bit so it is very important to pinpoint the same location on each cylinder or injector.
If there is indeed diesel in your crankcase I would still lean toward the pump being bad. Am I recommending you go buy a new pump? NO!
I have to wonder what is causing the sparks to come out the exhaust.
Did all this with engine running around 2000rpm and after about 20 minutes of run.
Last edited:
bruce1966us
Platinum Member
You should loosen the lines to the pump and check.
284 International
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Does the machine run smoothly, or does it feel like it has a miss? Does it have reasonable power? Will it push a bucket full of dirt, or at least spin the wheels if it cannot?
If cracking the injector lines didn't produce any result, anywhere, you have consistently established that you weren't opening the line enough to do anything. That is, if you couldn't tell any change in any of the three cylinders, it's obvious that test wasn't changing anything sufficiently to find a dead cylinder. Your tractor doesn't sound like there is a dead cylinder, it sounds like you may be leaking fuel into the crankcase.
I'm assuming you have changed the oil after draining it. Has the oil level risen since then? If so, then there is something leaking into the crankcase. That will need to be addressed, one way or another. If the shutoff valve doesn't work, that won't cause the problem itself, but will make servicing the system obnoxious.
If the tractor were mine, and the oil level hasn't changed for a few days, here is what I would do: First, I would check to see if the shutoff valve was repairable. If not, I'd order one from Hoye or LMTC so they could ship it to me this afternoon or tomorrow morning. Then, I would replace the air filter. If the plastic cover you're talking about is something non-factory, I would remove it.
Next I would put whatever is the heaviest implement I had (Like a disk or box blade or something) and work the tractor as hard as I could. It's possible the rings have sat for a long time, and are just stuck. I'd do that for 15 minutes or so, then check to verify the oil level wasn't changing. I'd try to work the tractor hard for at least an hour, enough to get everything good and hot and loaded. That will probably loosen anything up that will.
Then, I would reassess your situation. Does it still smoke? When, and under what conditions? How much? Has the oil level changed any? If the smoke went away and the oil level didn't change, I would keep the tractor stored with the fuel turned off, and use it. If the smoke stayed but was manageable, I'd keep using it. If the oil level changed in less than an hour's use, I would start planning to diagnose it more thoroughly and start budgeting for my repairs.
If cracking the injector lines didn't produce any result, anywhere, you have consistently established that you weren't opening the line enough to do anything. That is, if you couldn't tell any change in any of the three cylinders, it's obvious that test wasn't changing anything sufficiently to find a dead cylinder. Your tractor doesn't sound like there is a dead cylinder, it sounds like you may be leaking fuel into the crankcase.
I'm assuming you have changed the oil after draining it. Has the oil level risen since then? If so, then there is something leaking into the crankcase. That will need to be addressed, one way or another. If the shutoff valve doesn't work, that won't cause the problem itself, but will make servicing the system obnoxious.
If the tractor were mine, and the oil level hasn't changed for a few days, here is what I would do: First, I would check to see if the shutoff valve was repairable. If not, I'd order one from Hoye or LMTC so they could ship it to me this afternoon or tomorrow morning. Then, I would replace the air filter. If the plastic cover you're talking about is something non-factory, I would remove it.
Next I would put whatever is the heaviest implement I had (Like a disk or box blade or something) and work the tractor as hard as I could. It's possible the rings have sat for a long time, and are just stuck. I'd do that for 15 minutes or so, then check to verify the oil level wasn't changing. I'd try to work the tractor hard for at least an hour, enough to get everything good and hot and loaded. That will probably loosen anything up that will.
Then, I would reassess your situation. Does it still smoke? When, and under what conditions? How much? Has the oil level changed any? If the smoke went away and the oil level didn't change, I would keep the tractor stored with the fuel turned off, and use it. If the smoke stayed but was manageable, I'd keep using it. If the oil level changed in less than an hour's use, I would start planning to diagnose it more thoroughly and start budgeting for my repairs.
Thanks everyone for the info.
The tractor has power - had the bucket into a pile of gravel and it sould dig the rear tires in and in 4 wheel would spin them.
I have ordered all new filters from Hoye.
I am going to check the injectors again by cracking the hard line fittings and see what that does. The fuel filter and bowl were really coated with gunk.
Thanks again
Vern
The tractor has power - had the bucket into a pile of gravel and it sould dig the rear tires in and in 4 wheel would spin them.
I have ordered all new filters from Hoye.
I am going to check the injectors again by cracking the hard line fittings and see what that does. The fuel filter and bowl were really coated with gunk.
Thanks again
Vern
grainger12002
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Vern
I would continue to run it a bit,with clean filters and good air flow. Then in 10 hours or so change the oil again,watch the level and see if the other issues improve. I also have a 336,you will like it and in CT thats a great deal on a 4wd loder tractor that runs-
From CT
go UCONN basketball ....
I would continue to run it a bit,with clean filters and good air flow. Then in 10 hours or so change the oil again,watch the level and see if the other issues improve. I also have a 336,you will like it and in CT thats a great deal on a 4wd loder tractor that runs-
From CT
go UCONN basketball ....
Gypsyman
Silver Member
I would start with the cheapest thing first. A compression test. If the compression checks out go after the injection system. Low compression due to cylinder wear or weak rings can cause oil dilution due to a potion of the unburned fuel charge getting past the rings.
Weak injectors can also cause fuel/oil dilution. We see this a lot in the Cummins when injectors fail to seal after firing and dribble fuel throughout the pistons cycle. Worn injectors that aren't sealing properly can also dribble after the engine is shut down and allow fuel to seep past the rings.
The smoke color is most likely oil consumption. A lack of air usually causes black smoke due to unburned fuel.
The only way to really check EGT's would be to drill the manifold and use an actual EGT gauge. Unfortunately EGT gauges don't seem very common in the tractor world so finding temps for comparison would be hard to do.
The sparks are interesting. Were they large sparks that continued to glow as they fell to the ground like pieces of hot metal? If they were very fine sparks that disappeared as soon as the left the exhaust pipe they're most likely just small pieces of carbon coming loose and exiting the exhaust.
The 336D that I bought had been running for years with the wrong injection pump and bent governor linkage to boot. It was so low on power and so far off on the air/fuel ratio that it would barely get out of it's own way. The engine and exhaust were BADLY sooted up internally. As a matter of fact, the outlet on the muffler was closed down to about the size of your thumb with soot. Once I had it repaired and running at full power again the carbon spark show under full load was quite a sight to see. Three weeks later it still blows small black carbon particles out the pipe as it warms up and the occasional random micro sparks as hot piece of carbon burn off from the cylinders and exhaust.
Weak injectors can also cause fuel/oil dilution. We see this a lot in the Cummins when injectors fail to seal after firing and dribble fuel throughout the pistons cycle. Worn injectors that aren't sealing properly can also dribble after the engine is shut down and allow fuel to seep past the rings.
The smoke color is most likely oil consumption. A lack of air usually causes black smoke due to unburned fuel.
The only way to really check EGT's would be to drill the manifold and use an actual EGT gauge. Unfortunately EGT gauges don't seem very common in the tractor world so finding temps for comparison would be hard to do.
The sparks are interesting. Were they large sparks that continued to glow as they fell to the ground like pieces of hot metal? If they were very fine sparks that disappeared as soon as the left the exhaust pipe they're most likely just small pieces of carbon coming loose and exiting the exhaust.
The 336D that I bought had been running for years with the wrong injection pump and bent governor linkage to boot. It was so low on power and so far off on the air/fuel ratio that it would barely get out of it's own way. The engine and exhaust were BADLY sooted up internally. As a matter of fact, the outlet on the muffler was closed down to about the size of your thumb with soot. Once I had it repaired and running at full power again the carbon spark show under full load was quite a sight to see. Three weeks later it still blows small black carbon particles out the pipe as it warms up and the occasional random micro sparks as hot piece of carbon burn off from the cylinders and exhaust.
