353 HST shuts off for no apparent reason

[tpcannon]

I think I've solved the problem, and I feel pretty stupid about what I found.

More and more, the symptoms kept pointing to an overheated transmission. But why would the transmission overheat when the engine wasn't? It's probably due for an oil change, but certainly not critically overdue. So I had resigned myself to having the tractor hauled to the dealer, 100 miles one-way. I don't like asking mechanics to work on dirty equipment, so I decided to clean it up yesterday and get it ready for the pros.

While washing the dust off engine, I noticed something that I'd never noticed before. In front of the engine radiator, behind the transmission oil cooler, there is a screen. The screen fits tight against the front of the engine radiator and is painted black just like that radiator. The transmission oil cooler is a natural aluminum color and there is a small air gap between the two. The oil radiator was clean, save for a tiny amount of dust.

But that screen was clogged. It looked like a clothes drier lint filter after the first drying of new towels. The screen lifts out easily. I cleaned it off and replaced it. I finished giving the tractor a bath and let it drip dry for a couple hours.

Then I went out and started it up, and started working it. I ran it for over an hour grooming erosion out of my driveway and I had no problem. Recent attempts to work the tractor have only lasted about 15 minutes or so - just long enough for the transmission to get up to working temperature (or so I theorized - I've never seen any idiot lights warning of high trans oil temp.) I haven't been able to get more than 15-20 minutes work out of it for last several times that I've attempted, so working without shutting down for over an hour leads me to think the problem is solved.

I don't know why the engine wasn't running hot. According to the engine temp gauge, it was normal. Even though the oil cooler was unobstructed, there would have been little airflow through it because the fan wasn't able to draw air through the engine radiator.

If this was the problem, I'm very disappointed that there was no transmission overheat idiot light indication. A hint like that would have been very valuable. Now I want a temp gauge for the transmission.

 

[Btown]

Diesel engines produce very little heat and 15-20 minutes it would probably just be starting to warm up to operating temp. Glad you found the issue.

 

[Handloader109]

Diesel engines produce very little heat and 15-20 minutes it would probably just be starting to warm up to operating temp. Glad you found the issue.

Where in the world did you get that information? Diesel engines produce copious amounts of heat. They are internal combustion engines just like gasoline except for fuel and they have to use extreme cylinder pressure to self explode fuel rather than spark plugs.

 

[Btown]

Where in the world did you get that information? Diesel engines produce copious amounts of heat. They are internal combustion engines just like gasoline except for fuel and they have to use extreme cylinder pressure to self explode fuel rather than spark plugs.

Yes you are right, but diesels are way more efficient and produce a lot less excess heat than a spark engine. It takes a long time for a diesel to produce heat in the winter time compared to a gas engine. This why a lot of vehicles with diesels will cover up the grill of their vehicles in the winter. My 7.3 L powerstroke if it below 20F will kick in high idle when you stop even after driving it for 2 hours. Drive a gas engine for 20 minutes at that temp and it will be at 205F.

 

[Handloader109]

A lot of that is a lot more mass is steel in the engine, and what, about another 3 qts of oil and a lot more water in the radiator. I had a powerstroke for 8 yrs. It did take a bit longer but that is deceiving

 

[tpcannon]

I still have the problem.

We got enough rain a few days ago to soften up our road so I could do some grooming, remove some erosion damage and hopefully, improve the crown. The tractor performed well for about 75-90 minutes and then shut down. Same problem, but since the radiator and oil cooler were cleaned, it now takes longer to occur (it was only taking 15-20 minutes before). So that leads me to believe that my theory of heat in the transmission is still the most likely root cause of this problem.

I need to get the transmission oil replaced and have a complete flush and bleed done on it, new filter, and any diagnostics on it that are possible. I'm waiting for a PTO seal to arrive. When I have that, I will take the tractor to my local tractor repair guy to do the work for me. I'll keep you all updated.

The feedback loop that is causing the engine stop solenoid to shut the engine down is still a mystery.

 

[tpcannon]

The latest on this trouble...

I'm in the middle of a kitchen and bath remodel that is taking months, so I have no hours to spend troubleshooting this, so I took it to a local independent tractor repair guy. The tractor needed service anyhow, so I had him bleed and change the hydraulic fluid and filter. He did all this work for less than what it would have cost me to have the tractor hauled the 200 mile round trip to the dealer and back.

My most recent experiences had led me to believe that the trouble was heat related, but in taking it off the trailer, cold, at the repair garage, it died twice on me. The mechanic said that it died four times on him when he was moving from outside to inside the garage.

He chased down the electrical problem. He was able to tap into a wire for the fuel shut-off solenoid's hold coil. He attached a 12V light to that and he said it was flickering all the time, but occasionally would flicker off for a longer period and that is when the solenoid would deactivate, killing the engine.

He traced that back to a module under the dash (on the fuel gauge/temp side). He said he could duplicate the trouble be pressing on the module. He said he could not duplicate the trouble by stressing any of the wires or connectors going into the module. I assume the module was sealed, but I failed to ask him that.

He rigged a wire around the module to provide power to the solenoid whenever the tractor is running, essentially bypassing all the safety switches, but allowing the tractor to run dependably.

The electrical documentation is so poor, I really have no idea what part to ask the dealer for to replace the module, but to be honest, I haven't taken the time to call the dealer on it and I'm a bit scared of what the price might be.

I found one schematic diagram that had a "controller" shown, but now I can't find that schematic. The shop manual does a great job telling you in deatail how the fuel gauge works (just like they have for decades), but has nearly zero mention of this safety shutoff system.

So that's where I am for the time being. The tractor works and that's the most important thing to me. I'd like to have all the safety protections working too, but it will probably be spring before I'll have time to play with it.

Note that ThePumpGuySC suggested something similar to this fix a while back but I just wasn't ready yet to take drastic action. But, eventually the frustration got to me and here I am.

 

[fla45fan]

Back in 2015 (about 10 pages back) I posted the same problem. I have been living with it for years now. Did you fix the problem? I have fritzed with different fixes including "feathering" the brakes the minute the check engine light comes on, which sometimes seem to help. ?? Mine seems to act up more in hot weather than cold. Snow removal the last couple of years was a breeze but beach clean up In the summer can be problematic.

 

[tpcannon]

Back in 2015 (about 10 pages back) I posted the same problem. I have been living with it for years now. Did you fix the problem? I have fritzed with different fixes including "feathering" the brakes the minute the check engine light comes on, which sometimes seem to help. ?? Mine seems to act up more in hot weather than cold. Snow removal the last couple of years was a breeze but beach clean up In the summer can be problematic.

I didn't have time to trace it out, so I gave up and brought it to an independent tractor repair guy that lives a couple miles down the road from me. He traced the problem to a module behind the dash (passenger side, if it was a car). He said he could duplicate the problem by just pushing on the module. Apparently, all of the safety circuits go through that module. He added a jumper that shorted around the module and I haven't had a problem since then. The bad side to that is that all the safety circuits such as the seat switch, are no longer working. He didn't take any pictures and I haven't had time to dig into it.

I was hoping by this time I would be able to take some time to re-visit it, but I'm buried with other things. Some day, if I get back to it, I will post pictures and get a part number for the module. I'd also like to get a price for the module. It's nice to have a solid, dependable tractor, but there are some safety features that I'd prefer were still working as designed.