kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
I have to agree with Soundguy, what they are building today is not the same ruggedness as the old tractors and they won't last as long.
3PH problem
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Egon
Epic Contributor
Are you saying that an L head 8N engine based on 1920's design is gonna outlast the diesel engine in a Kubota on a regular basis???
kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
Are you saying that an L head 8N engine based on 1920's design is gonna outlast the diesel engine in a Kubota on a regular basis???
Did I say 8N But a Ford,IH,JD OHV engine will and I know that the rest of the tractor will also last.
kthompson
Elite Member
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- Kubotas B2710, M6800, L6060 cab, Volvo EC excavator, 2 ZTRs and various implements.
This is funny...for canopy you need metal for fenders plastic is better..based upon comments from more than this thread. So far I have replaced the plastic part of both fenders on my Kubota M6800 and have the second to replace on the right side now. Sure rather it was metal. At same time have had no issues with fiberglas canopy.
There are many factors that come into play on the life of anything. Tractors no different. Even sitting time counts. Even if in garage things do age.
There are many factors that come into play on the life of anything. Tractors no different. Even sitting time counts. Even if in garage things do age.
Egon
Epic Contributor
kinda like going down a hole after a snake...
Here I thought you were scared of Garter Snakes Soundguy. Thought they were always coming fur you!
Must have hit on some facts by Gar, the derogatory remarks are starting.
Just consider me "The Voice Of Reality" soundguy
sandman2234
Super Member
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- JD2555 and a few Allis Chalmers and now one Kubota
A 70 horsepower tractor built 20years ago will have a longer lifespan in actual working hours than the same manufacturers tractor built today that probably won't still be working in 20 years due to the electronics being obsolete and not replacable. Isolate just the parts required to do the work, bypass the electronics and you probably still won't have a chance, as they just aren't making them to last. A good example is right of way maintance, as they are rough on equipment and the new stuff isn't lasting as long as the old tractors did.
Anyone who believes different is a fool, and I don't care who you are or where your from.
David from jax
Anyone who believes different is a fool, and I don't care who you are or where your from.
David from jax
Egon
Epic Contributor
YouTube - Hruska Farms 2009 spring seeding
YouTube - Harvest at Kristiansborg Farm
Mr. Sandman; time moves on! In many farming areas there has been a change to equipment which is better suited to the business of farming. The farming business is about making money and what is required to do that. If those new tractors weren't making money they would not be out there.
As the business changed so to did the equipment. And with the new equipment just as with the old there is finite life span involved. This means a life span that is measured in more concise increments than years. Hours seems to be the unit of choice for most.
Now how many 8N's could a farmer wear out doing the work that one tractor shown in the video will do before it is worn out??
I readily admit to being fool but the greatest fool of all is one who does not know he is a fool!
YouTube - Harvest at Kristiansborg Farm
Mr. Sandman; time moves on! In many farming areas there has been a change to equipment which is better suited to the business of farming. The farming business is about making money and what is required to do that. If those new tractors weren't making money they would not be out there.
As the business changed so to did the equipment. And with the new equipment just as with the old there is finite life span involved. This means a life span that is measured in more concise increments than years. Hours seems to be the unit of choice for most.
Now how many 8N's could a farmer wear out doing the work that one tractor shown in the video will do before it is worn out??
I readily admit to being fool but the greatest fool of all is one who does not know he is a fool!
banjodunn
Veteran Member
G'day guys i'm going to throw my hat in the ring with this one. I live on a 1200 ish acre farm born and bred in the bush, however for the last 20 + years have scratched out a crust fixing all types of machinery ( not alot under 50 hp though) and they both have their advantages, old girls easy to work on and fairly reliable not alot of creature comforts though, new rockets again pretty easy to work on ( so long as you have a computer degree ) and reliable and very nice when you are spending 14 - 18 hours in the saddle, however it is horses for courses when I want to bench up some wood or pump a bit of water I don't hook up to my TM 150 i use my old fordson super major, likewise when i have to go and rip up a couple hundred acres I use the TM much nicer to be in with air ride seat , air con and a few tunes on the rock box (oh and the full powershift very handy in the hills). But i have just as much fun on the fordson as the TM as far as farmers not still using 50s models tractors for everyday use we did not use the quantity or the potency of chemicals in those days ( I like my TM cab with charcoal filters for this), like you soundguy i do not think i will have TM in thirty years ( hope not any way drought gotta end before then ) but hope to still be using super major
Jon
), like you soundguy i do not think i will have TM in thirty years ( hope not any way drought gotta end before then ) but hope to still be using super majorJon
kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
YouTube - Hruska Farms 2009 spring seeding
YouTube - Harvest at Kristiansborg Farm
Mr. Sandman; time moves on! In many farming areas there has been a change to equipment which is better suited to the business of farming. The farming business is about making money and what is required to do that. If those new tractors weren't making money they would not be out there.
As the business changed so to did the equipment. And with the new equipment just as with the old there is finite life span involved. This means a life span that is measured in more concise increments than years. Hours seems to be the unit of choice for most.
Now how many 8N's could a farmer wear out doing the work that one tractor shown in the video will do before it is worn out??
I readily admit to being fool but the greatest fool of all is one who does not know he is a fool!
IS the 8N the only tractor you know? Ford also built other tractors so did IH ,JD ,AC ,CASE!
Egon
Epic Contributor
I have seen a few tractors other than the 8N. In actuality they were not all that popular in the area where I grew up.
Cockshot, Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, McCormick Deering could be added to your list also.
Cockshot, Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, McCormick Deering could be added to your list also.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
Chris, obviously "someone" thinks his immediate area is the gold standard for farming. What works in that corner of the world is the absolute finite answer to all the worlds questions, wants, and needs.
Fortunately, so many of us know otherwise.
The biggest changes in tractors DOES NOT deal with engines, transmissions, ect. The modern tractors are more popular to those who log hundreds of hours per year because of features like QUIET cabs, COMFORTABLE air conditioning, Plush seats, stereo sound systems, ect.....CREATURE COMFORTS that you just didn't see but for extremely rare instances 40 years ago. Some of the modern implements require more hydraulic input than the old ones were built to handle, yes. But nowhere near ALL.....
Now.....Look at the lions share of farmers. Not the 5% that comprise the "BIG TIME OPERATORS", but the remaining 95% of the group. No, they don't do MOST of their field work with 1950's tractors, (although more than you might realize still DO) but models from the '60's and 70's still roam the fields of the corn belt. "66 series" IH, 30 and 40 series Deere's ect, still sell well, and still pull many a corn planter. I have a neighbor who farms over 2500 acres. His NEWEST tractor is a 1978 Deere 4840. He also still uses a '74 Deere 4430 and a 1966 Deere 4020. 180 HP in 1978 numbers is still the same as 180 HP in 2009 numbers. That 30 year old Deere will pull a 16-row no till planter or a 20' no till bean drill just as fast as the latest techno-wonder tractors. And it'll do so with MUCH MUCH less overhead.
About those "BTO"'s........ Most of 'em buy the latest, greatest, biggest, baddest tractors on the market for a number of reasons. Not least of which is bragging rights, tax breaks, and for those creature comforts. Only in a VERY few instances is the technology and available options the deciding factor (as opposed to a rationalization). Equipment such as GPS, auto-steer, ect, are available as retrofits to the old tractors, making them every bit as capable as tractors costing 10 or 20 times as much.
I own new AND old tractors. Enough of each to make what I consider as a QUALIFIED statement. The OLD guys will log far more hours before being deadlined. That has to do with simplicity and ease of maintaining them once they're old enough to be financially impractical to repair and/or continue using, based on the MUCH higher cost of keeping that "modern technology" in functional condition.
And finally, there is hard FACTS to back up my opinion. All you need do is look at re-sale values of "modern" tractors built and sold 10 to 15 years ago. The techno-wonders fall off in value once they've logged a fair number of hours. Cost to rebuild/repair make it prohibitive to continue using them. Many of them drop to $.20 or $.30 on the dollar from original purchase price, most fall to $.50 to $.75 on that original dollar. Tractors of the '70's and back traditionally hold their value, even in MANY cases being worth MORE than original purchase price. And we are NOT talking about collectables here. I'm talking about "daily drivers" like those 4000 series Deere, ect. Look at smaller tractors. '80's and 90's utilities and early generation "compacts" drop off in value after a while, where older models still sell at prices ABOVE original. (ie, my 38 year old '71 MF150.... I paid $4000 and change in 1971. In average to rough condition, they sell for $4500 to $5000 now, and I've recently passed on two offers in excess of $6500.)
Fortunately, so many of us know otherwise.
The biggest changes in tractors DOES NOT deal with engines, transmissions, ect. The modern tractors are more popular to those who log hundreds of hours per year because of features like QUIET cabs, COMFORTABLE air conditioning, Plush seats, stereo sound systems, ect.....CREATURE COMFORTS that you just didn't see but for extremely rare instances 40 years ago. Some of the modern implements require more hydraulic input than the old ones were built to handle, yes. But nowhere near ALL.....
Now.....Look at the lions share of farmers. Not the 5% that comprise the "BIG TIME OPERATORS", but the remaining 95% of the group. No, they don't do MOST of their field work with 1950's tractors, (although more than you might realize still DO) but models from the '60's and 70's still roam the fields of the corn belt. "66 series" IH, 30 and 40 series Deere's ect, still sell well, and still pull many a corn planter. I have a neighbor who farms over 2500 acres. His NEWEST tractor is a 1978 Deere 4840. He also still uses a '74 Deere 4430 and a 1966 Deere 4020. 180 HP in 1978 numbers is still the same as 180 HP in 2009 numbers. That 30 year old Deere will pull a 16-row no till planter or a 20' no till bean drill just as fast as the latest techno-wonder tractors. And it'll do so with MUCH MUCH less overhead.
About those "BTO"'s........ Most of 'em buy the latest, greatest, biggest, baddest tractors on the market for a number of reasons. Not least of which is bragging rights, tax breaks, and for those creature comforts. Only in a VERY few instances is the technology and available options the deciding factor (as opposed to a rationalization). Equipment such as GPS, auto-steer, ect, are available as retrofits to the old tractors, making them every bit as capable as tractors costing 10 or 20 times as much.
I own new AND old tractors. Enough of each to make what I consider as a QUALIFIED statement. The OLD guys will log far more hours before being deadlined. That has to do with simplicity and ease of maintaining them once they're old enough to be financially impractical to repair and/or continue using, based on the MUCH higher cost of keeping that "modern technology" in functional condition.
And finally, there is hard FACTS to back up my opinion. All you need do is look at re-sale values of "modern" tractors built and sold 10 to 15 years ago. The techno-wonders fall off in value once they've logged a fair number of hours. Cost to rebuild/repair make it prohibitive to continue using them. Many of them drop to $.20 or $.30 on the dollar from original purchase price, most fall to $.50 to $.75 on that original dollar. Tractors of the '70's and back traditionally hold their value, even in MANY cases being worth MORE than original purchase price. And we are NOT talking about collectables here. I'm talking about "daily drivers" like those 4000 series Deere, ect. Look at smaller tractors. '80's and 90's utilities and early generation "compacts" drop off in value after a while, where older models still sell at prices ABOVE original. (ie, my 38 year old '71 MF150.... I paid $4000 and change in 1971. In average to rough condition, they sell for $4500 to $5000 now, and I've recently passed on two offers in excess of $6500.)
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Bird
Rest in Peace
This argument has gone long enough. Thread closed.
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