3ph problem

[Tom_Veatch]

Thanks, Eugene.

I've got most of the superstructure removed on my tractor and have a very good view of the 3pt housing. There is absolutely nothing moveable on that housing except the service lock valve, and the mechanisms for the 3pt lever and the draft(?) control lever. I was 90% convinced no such animal as a drop rate control exists on my tractor. Your comment pushes that to about 98% conviction.

I had been feathering the service lock to control implement drop rate but noticed a couple of posts which stated the service lock should be either full open or full closed. Then I saw the same statement in my manual - either full open or full closed. That set me on the search for, what appears to be, a non-existent drop rate control.

Incidentally, where did you get your manual. Mine is a Operations Manual translation provided by Hoye Tractors and appears to attempt coverage of all the YMXX20 tractors. Do you happen to have one specifically for the 2220D?

My manual states explicitly:

"The valve that adjusts the drop speed is located under the seat, on the right side. It is a small lever that, when moved clockwise slows drop speed and when moved counter-clockwise, increases drop speed. Adjust for a smooth, slow drop."

That is followed by a big "safety alert symbol" and the caption "Open lock valve completely when not in use."

I simply do not believe that applies to my tractor!

 

[pruntyc]

But your profile doesn't show you having a Yanmar. And I know most of them have the little lever. My John Deere although made by Yanmar doesn't have one, so they don't have them anymore, but the gray markets ones that I know of has.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Don't know what to say about that. Just added some stuff to my profile but it already said "Yanmar 2220D" in the "Tractor Make and Model" block.

 

[pruntyc]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean you Tom. I was talking about Buppy69, when I said that.

 

[Soundguy]

Here's a pic of my 1700 hyd section. You can see the tranny shift patter at the top of the pic for reference.

Soundguy

Thanks, Bruce.

OK, this has become a Mission! "Take that hill!!! Find That Valve!!!". It may be a day or so before I get back to it. The "Honey-Do" list needs some attention. What I plan to do is strip off the superstructure so I've got a clear view all around that 3pt housing, shoot a bunch of pictures and see if there are any sharp eyed eagles out there that can rub my nose on/in it. To be honest, I'm beginning to think that my tractor simply hasn't got one. But I can hardly believe that either. With the service lock valve full open, the 3pt falls like a rock. There has to be some way to modulate the drop rate.

Incidentally, mine doesn't look much like the diagram you posted. The seat attachment brackets are totally different. Two transverse rails run from fender to fender. A heavy elongated "S" shaped metal support is welded to the front rail, runs fore and aft, and bolts to the top of the 3pt housing. Two fore/aft slides similar to drawer slides bolt to the rails above the heavy support and the seat pivot pin goes through a tubular retainer that runs side to side at the front of those "drawer slides". The banjo fitting shown at the top of the 3pt housing in the diagram comes in from the right side on mine, and attaches to a horizontal ledge about halfway down the right front corner of my 3pt housing. All that is just to point out that the diagram is considerably different from what I am seeing.

You know, doing this much disassembly, I ought to just go ahead, pull the fenders and do a little cosmetic sheet metal and painting work. Guess that will depend on the length of those "Honey-Do's".

I really thank you guys and gals for the attention y'all have given this. A bunch of great folks hang out here.

BTW, ya' think this should be migrated to a new thread to better state what's going on here??? I didn't expect it to become this involved when I tacked on to the end of the old thread.

 

[normde2001]

"I've got most of the superstructure removed on my tractor and have a very good view of the 3pt housing. There is absolutely nothing moveable on that housing except the service lock valve, and the mechanisms for the 3pt lever and the draft(?) control lever. I was 90% convinced no such animal as a drop rate control exists on my tractor. Your comment pushes that to about 98% conviction'

I, and probably most of us, have never even seen a YM2220; however I can't imagine what all of this superstructure is that you are referring to, (a pic of the LH area under the seat would be good). On my YM2000B, when you close, or partially close the servicing stop valve, you are shutting down/off the flow of hydraulic fluid and stand a chance of shearing the drive key in the pump. The more you close it and attempt to operate the lift, it will begin squealing and operating erratically as if the pickup screen were plugged.
Apparently none of the dealers have a 2220 on the lot that they can check.

 

[Eddie]

Ya'll may be sending this boy on a Snipe Hunt. His 2220 may not have one of these levers. I know my 2020 don't have one, Just the big round knob in the center under the front of the seat. My 1700 has one but not the 2020.

 

[normde2001]

"Ya'll may be sending this boy on a Snipe Hunt. His 2220 may not have one of these levers."

Nobody ever said it did. He asked about it, and we were trying to get him to look in the area where it would likely be if it had one.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Superstructure = Seat, seat rails, toolbox, transverse support rails and bracket, and sheet metal around PTO range selector and 3pt levers - all those components which block an open view (and camera angle) of the 3pt housing.

The diagram posted earlier is a very good representation of the unit in Norm's photograph and the rate control lever is very visible - thank you, Norm. I seriously doubt that I could overlook a feature as prominent as that. But, believe me, nothing that has any resemblance to that control lever exists anywhere on my 3pt housing. Other than the service lock valve, and the PTO levers, the only movable/removable features on that housing is the banjo fitting and multiple hex headed plugs(?) that require a wrench to move/remove.

EFT's website listed a 2220D as being in stock at his dealership. I dropped a PM to him with a request to take a look and see if a rate control valve exists on that machine and, if so, to describe it's location. But, as yet, there has been no response.

I think I can state with conviction that the 2220D (at least the tractor I own) does not have a rate control valve mounted anywhere on the 3pt housing unless it is masquerading as one of those hex-headed plugs. See attached photos.

 

[pruntyc]

What you are calling a service lock valve, on the new John Deeres its called a drop/lock valve, and it is used to adjust the drop speed. I wonder if they started using it for that back when yours was made. It works fine on the JD. Might want to check with someone that knows more about them, before you use it that way, but its a thought.

 

[Eddie]

Looks just like my 2020 Tom. You don't have one

 

[buppy69]

Dick

What has me not owning a Yanmar got to do with anything? You said it yourself "they no longer have them".

Tom

PM me your email address and I'll send you a scan of the page in the manual that states such.

Eugene

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't understand the problem exactly. On my 1602D, there's no such drop control valve, but the lever I use to raise and lower the 3ph controls the drop speed, the further I push it down, the further it goes, if I move it downward smoothly, the 3ph drops smoothly with the lever position...........

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Thanks, Eddie. Looks like it's back to either using the service lock in spite the advice against it or being smooth and slow with the 3pt position lever ala Jagmandave's example. (Thanks Jagmandave).

In fact, thanks to all the kind folks who've participated in this attempt to improve my education. I appreciate it. Now, I believe my questions/concerns have been satisfied so I think I'll go try to put my tractor back together. Thanks again to all!

 

[Soundguy]

The drop control level is an orifice valve.. if you tighten it up, you can slap your 3pt control all the way down, and the oil will only be able to escape the 3pt cyl slowly.. thus making the implement very slowly settle to the ground.. It is usefull with heavy implements that you don't want to accidentall 'slam' to the ground.

I looked at his posted pic.. boy.. sure looks 100% different than what is on the 1700

Soundguy

 

[buppy69]

Tom

I sent you a scan. Let me know if you get it or not.

Eugene

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Interesting comments in the manual page Eugene mailed to me (Yep, I got it. Thanks!). Seems in that particular design, the service lock valve acts almost like a diode/choke in an electrical circuit - has a slider in the valve body that is moved by oil flow such that the valve offers free flow to the fluid in "raise" mode and slides to choke or restrict cylinder outflow in the "lower" mode.

Also, comments in this thread makes it look like at least one Yanmar model in the XX02 series and two in the XX20 series operate without a separate drop rate control. Can't help but wonder if the "guts" in those units aren't designed similar to Eugene's. Hmmm... Design change in later models??? Wonder what the FXXX models do for drop rate control.

I'm not going to tear into mine to find out, but I have observed that "throttling" the service lock to limit drop rate doesn't seem to affect lift speed nor do I see any indications of excessive load on the hyd. pump (noise, whining, etc). YMMV!

 

[Eddie]

I use the big round knob under the front of the seat to let my finish mower drop at a speed that it won't slam down. Been working that way for a year.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Also, comments in this thread makes it look like at least one Yanmar model in the XX02 series and two in the XX20 series operate without a separate drop rate control. Can't help but wonder if the "guts" in those units aren't designed similar to Eugene's. Hmmm... Design change in later models??? Wonder what the FXXX models do for drop rate control.

My Fx24 dosn't have the valve being discussed, only the big knob below and in front of the seat. On these models you can't see any portion of the trans from the seat.

I'm trying my damnest to figure out how the draft control on my tractor works and have recently started a thread with questions about 3pt hyd operation. Hope others will look and comment if they have any knowldege.

 

[ChuckT]

Let's think for a moment about these tractors. Remember the commercial "Parts is parts!"? The concept celebrated in that ad probably describes the spectrum of Yanmar tractors that we have better than most of us think!

Some Yanmars were imported (US models) direct, others came over in shipping containers and were more or less intact. Why should we be surprised if tractor "A" (model YM-yadada) is not the exact and precise duplicate of tractor "B" (also model YM-yadada)? Seems more likely to me (IMHO) that we should be amazed that the two are even close!


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