3PH Shudder with Draft Control

[ritcheyvs]

My DK45S has position and draft controls for the three-point. Before today, I've only used the position control and it was very stable. Today I used the draft control with a box scraper and the 3PH tends to shudder and oscillate when I raise the blade with the draft control. I also notice shudder while scraping with a load when the draft control tries to raise the blade. This is a minor problem that can wait until I'm doing maintenance but I thought I'd research it now.

Do I need to adjust the sensitivity?

Thanks.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Scott, I think that you are not really suppose to raise the blade using the draft control. Double check your owners manual as far as set up. Get it set properly and use it properly and all of these problems should go away. If it is shuddering while under a load, you may need to go to a stiffer draft setting. Next top link pin location. Be sure to double check your top link clearances.

 

[ksbrdmkr]

The top link needs to be in one of the bottom two holes for draft control, then use the draft control for draft/position at the working level and not for lifting.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The top link needs to be in one of the bottom two holes for draft control, then use the draft control for draft/position at the working level and not for lifting.

How is it that only 2 of the 3 holes have anything to do with the draft control? Why not all 3?

 

[jeff9366]

Scott, you are NOT supposed to raise the blade using the draft control. Double check your owners manual as far as set up.

MtnViewRanch provides the right answer, as always.

 

[ksbrdmkr]

The top link attachment is mounted on a pivot and the bottom two holes work against a spring? and the top hole is directly in line with the pivot so the draft is not transferred to any linkage. In the DK45 book on Chap 5 , Pg 25. is the Kioti explaination.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The top link attachment is mounted on a pivot and the bottom two holes work against a spring? and the top hole is directly in line with the pivot so the draft is not transferred to any linkage. In the DK45 book on Chap 5 , Pg 25. is the Kioti explaination.

Ok, just asking, I am not a Kioti owner, don't have the owners manual.

It is not that way on my Mahindra 7520. When attached to the pin location closest to the pivot point, that is where the draft sensitivity is at it's least sensitive location and is where it is recommended to have the top Link located when doing severe ground engagement such as using a turn plow implement.

My thinking is-was that the same would hold true for the Kioti system also, but I guess not. I have never paid enough attention to the Kioti draft system to know any differently. I figured that it would pivot at one end and no matter what pin location is used, the draft control could be used if the conditions were right. You could make use of any of the pin locations to match the draft requirements of the task at hand. But it sounds like there are only 2 different draft positions and the 3rd has not draft control purpose.

I will take a look the next time I am around a DK series machine so that I might understand better how they have their top link bracket setup.

Thanks for all the info.

 

[ritcheyvs]

What ksbrdmkr said.

Also, I moved the pin to the middle hole (lower sensitivity) and all was good (no more shudder).

 

[ritcheyvs]

...
Be sure to double check your top link clearances.

Most excellent advice which I overlooked to my peril and chagrin.

 

[k0ua]

How is it that only 2 of the 3 holes have anything to do with the draft control? Why not all 3?

The top hole is solid, not connected to the draft sensor on his machine (and mine for that matter)


Looks like someone else already explained it.

 

[The kid]

Draft control is not designed to be used to grade with.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The top hole is solid, not connected to the draft sensor on his machine (and mine for that matter)

Looks like someone else already explained it.

Here is a photo of the bracket in question:



Now I have a question. It seems that a pulling force on the bracket should trigger the draft control (based on looking at the parts diagram). But wouldn't a patch of hard ground cause the plow to pivot on the lower arms and push on the top link? I'm sure that when my box blade hit hard spots (e.g roots) it compressed the top link.

Also another poster (forgot who or when) said draft control made grading easy. But The Kid advises draft control is not for grading. Which is right? What have others experienced.

As an aside, when i moved the top link from the bottom hole (high sensitivity) to the middle hole (reduced sensitivity) all my shudder issues (mentioned at the start of this thread) disappeared.

 

[The kid]

If what your doing works for you then go for it.

Sent via Ipad2

 

[k0ua]

Here is a photo of the bracket in question:

View attachment 372248

Now I have a question. It seems that a pulling force on the bracket should trigger the draft control (based on looking at the parts diagram). But wouldn't a patch of hard ground cause the plow to pivot on the lower arms and push on the top link? I'm sure that when my box blade hit hard spots (e.g roots) it compressed the top link.

Also another poster (forgot who or when) said draft control made grading easy. But The Kid advises draft control is not for grading. Which is right? What have others experienced.

As an aside, when i moved the top link from the bottom hole (high sensitivity) to the middle hole (reduced sensitivity) all my shudder issues (mentioned at the start of this thread) disappeared.

It doesn't matter what happens in the top hole as you have no leverage on the bracket, as it is hinged at that point just behind the hole. If you stick it in the lower hole, you have maximum leverage. the two adjusting screws and lock nuts are also down there.

 

[jeff9366]

Here is a photo of the bracket in question:

View attachment 372248
It seems that a pulling force on the bracket should trigger the draft control (based on looking at the parts diagram). But wouldn't a patch of hard ground cause the plow to pivot on the lower arms and push on the top link? I'm sure that when my box blade hit hard spots (e.g roots) it compressed the top link.

Also another poster (forgot who or when) said draft control made grading easy. But The Kid advises draft control is not for grading. Which is right?

This rotation is the "switch" that turns on the hydraulic flow to raise the Three Point Hitch when a mounted implement encounters an obstruction.

{Any quick hitch product occupying the "eyes" on the Lower Links negates Draft Control.}

Draft control is useful with a Box Blade but not as useful as with a plow, where it is not only convenient but an important safety device.

With the DC properly adjusted, it will raise a Box Blade full of dirt just before the tractor stalls out from lack of power or because the Box Blade encounters a tough spot, reducing the draft force enough so the tractor can continue to move/pull.

Draft Control will automatically raise the plow when it encounters a hard spot so the tractor does not rear up on its back wheels, then topple over.

Draft control one of multiple international patents Harry Ferguson obtained when he invented the Three Point Hitch between WWI and WWII, made possible the "lightweight" tractor as we know it today.

 

[Sawworcs]

Does draft control create down pressure? I was told that it helps not only with a plow working to hard but it also keeps down pressure on implements so you are not just relying on the weight of the implement.?

 

[jeff9366]

Does draft control create down pressure?

No Three Point Hitch provides down pressure. The only down pressure on the soil comes from implement weight, which is why weight is KEY to satisfactory performance of ground contact implements.

If the Three Point Hitch provided down pressure it would lift the rear wheels and traction would be zero.

 

[k0ua]

Does draft control create down pressure? I was told that it helps not only with a plow working to hard but it also keeps down pressure on implements so you are not just relying on the weight of the implement.?

No, Draft control does not provide downpressure. Draft control is nothing but another feedback mechanism to the 3pt hitch that "senses" when the "draft" or pull weight rises on the implement so that the tractor is now in danger of being stalled. This sensing of the increasing pull load causes the 3pt position control to automatically without operator intervention raise the 3pt so as to unload this excess pull load and then automatically lower the 3pt to the original position.

Scenario: you are plowing along nicely and all of a sudden you hit a large root or rock with the plow. the tractor starts to stall and the 3pt automatically lifts, over the obstruction, and then automatically lowers back down to continue plowing at the the preset depth.

 

[ritcheyvs]

...
Now I have a question. It seems that a pulling force on the bracket should trigger the draft control (based on looking at the parts diagram [and service manual]). But wouldn't a patch of hard ground cause the plow to pivot on the lower arms and push on the top link? I'm sure that when my box blade hit hard spots (e.g roots) it compressed the top link.

I think I have answered my own question. I found the following illustration (along with an excellent explanation) in the EX35-50 service manual:



It clearly shows that the draft mechanism functions (lifts) when the top link is in compression. I am glad to have access to this more-recent foreign manual, but I really wish the DK451 manuals (which I bought) were more thorough and had fewer errors (e.g. missing grease fittings, wrong engine, etc.).

 

[ksbrdmkr]

The draft control on the old Allis Chambers and on most bigger tractors the sensing linkage is on the bottom linkage so it is the direct draft(pull) that moves the linkage, on the Kioti it is the rotation to the top link that moves the linkage. I pretty sure there are advantages to either system.