40' container trailer axle placement

[Loonshotfarm]

Hey guys,

Officially new to the forum although I have used it as a resource for many years. Glad to be officially a part of the gang.

I'll try to be as thorough as possible with my questions so no one jump to conclusions about tow rig capabilities etc. Also, the option to pay someone to haul them is out of the question because of where they are going. That is the sole reason I purchased the trailer, so that is the way this project is moving forward.

Problem:
I am looking for someone with some actual experience hauling similar loads to, or actually, a 40' shipping container. I need to know the minimum rearward axle placement for proper realistic load distribution. I would love to have the axle 30' back to the center but the entire deck is only 26' long so best I can easily do(without major modification) is 23'. I'm trying to decide if that will be sufficient(no sway) or I should put in the extra work to add 2' onto the frame and get my axle back to 25' which would be 62.5% vs 57.5% weigh distribution over axle. I will say that the containers have some stuff in them that would add extra tongue weight, the lightest being probably 1,500lbs of extra weight, heaviest being a 4,000lb lathe I can move to front or back.

Tow rig/ trailer:
The tow rig without question is up for the task, it is an 83 International S1900 with DT466, 5+2, 26kgvw. Trailer is a bumper pull 22k, 26' dual tandem deckover with electric brakes. The equipment in question won't even sweat with the load. This is a trailer weight distribution question. Personally I have experience hauling loads up to 16k so I am familiar with the risks and precautions associated with towing.

Backstory:
I have 3 containers that I am building a container house out of and need to move them to my new property. Last week I purchased a 22k 26' dual tandem deckover for a song. It was a huge generator trailer for AT&T so there is no deck on it at the moment, but that doesn't matter for what I'm doing now. Later I will add some bracing and install a nice oak deck from some trees I will mill on my property. Last weekend I took some old MD truck frame rails I had and used them to add a 10' hydraulic dovetail to the back of the trailer. It is currently just the truck frame and no deck as at this point I only need it as a ramp to pull the containers on the trailer. I also installed a new 12k winch, with 800ah battery that charges through the trailer 7 way. I also purchased a snatch block to aid in loading the container so I don't burn up the winch. This give me a max total of 24klb winch capacity, well more than enough based on the research I 've done and vids I've watched. I have some 4" steel pipe that I will cut to 10' lengths also to use as rollers if needed to drag the containers more easily. I am heading to my property today to cut the axles and move them back(to a yet undetermined distance) and then button up a few final things like electric brake wiring, brake controller install in truck, and lights at the back of the new hydraulic dove. I am planning to attempt to load and tow my first container on Friday while everyone else if trampling over each other in walmart.

Conclusion/question:

What do you think is the least, safe, distance I should have for my axle placement? I want to be able to use this trailer for everything else in the future and having the axles 26-30' back, may make getting proper load distribution on a 16k dozer a little more difficult. I am trying to obtain a best of both worlds solution. Is adding tongue weight alone enough to eliminate sway in a load this long?


Thanks for any advice in advance and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[3Ts]

It depends. How far, how fast and what kind of roads are you going to be traveling over. It sounds like major roads at highway speeds is my inference. If you were only moving a few miles on low speed roads, I'd think you'd be ok.
I assume you are aware that the containers are designed to be supported on the 4 corners and not inbetween. What you describe sounds like the back end of the container will be hanging off the back end of the trailer, so the support will be in the middle of the container and you'll have 17' hanging off the back of the trailer. I also, assume that you'll have the proper tongue weight, but even so, with that much sail area behind the axles and the axles near the center, i'd be really concerned about sway. At low speeds and back roads I think you'd be ok, but highway speeds is out of the question.

Why not have a semi deliver them to near where you want them, then haul them the rest of the way?

 

[bcp]

Convert the trailer to sliding axles?

Bruce

 

[blacktruck]

Not sure what it is but there is a maximum limit to the amount of rear overhang permitted on a trailer. . A 40' container on a 26' trailer is already out of those limits. You would also have a lot of tail swing every time you turned any sort of a corner. From your experience level and equipment you are describing, you are trying to do something not prudent at all. Since you are asking today and plan to move in another day and a half, not likely anything said here could or would be taken into account. As a life long commercial driver, what you are wanting to do is not safe. I didn't say it couldn't be done but definitely not safely with what you have. Hire a local tow company to move them or something similar but please stay off the roads like that.

 

[RickB]

Not sure what it is but there is a maximum limit to the amount of rear overhang permitted on a trailer. . A 40' container on a 26' trailer is already out of those limits. You would also have a lot of tail swing every time you turned any sort of a corner. From your experience level and equipment you are describing, you are trying to do something not prudent at all. Since you are asking today and plan to move in another day and a half, not likely anything said here could or would be taken into account. As a life long commercial driver, what you are wanting to do is not safe. I didn't say it couldn't be done but definitely not safely with what you have. Hire a local tow company to move them or something similar but please stay off the roads like that.

Absolutely.

 

[4570Man]

Under no circumstances would I start cutting and welding the trailer unless you’re an expert at it. With plenty of trailer payload to spare I’d just add some more weight to the front. Long before I started cutting and welding the trailer I’d weld an axel and tongue on the container.

 

[Reb954]

There are a lot of variables but in general what the op is suggesting could be done and done safely.

I would not add to the trailer frame, instead put the items mentioned in the front of the container to add tongue weight. A 4x4 block can also be placed between the container and trailer, 10' to 15' back from the front of the trailer to transfer weight from the back of the trailer to the tongue if needed. Some experimenting will need to be done to determine how far back to put the block.

A permit can be gotten for the 14' of overhang but keep in mind, the issuing officer may want to inspect the whole setup so make sure everything is in order including axle weights. Magnetic lights on the back of the container may make it so you don't need a permit but you will need to verify that.

To repeat myself, there are a lot of variables. Some of those variables may make this not a doable thing so think it out carefully.

 

[orezok]

The placement is strictly going to depend upon tongue weight. If its bumper pull you need 12 to 15% of the total weight on the ball (trailer and load). Anything less than 12% will probably result in bad sway.

 

[Loonshotfarm]

Thanks for the info guys. Here's what I did tonight;


I just finished moving the axles back 8'. I decided to not add any length to the rear of the trailer and just put them as far back as possible. The center of the axles now sits at 23'6" from the front of the deck.
Some clarification for those concerned;

* I own a metal fabrication shop with all the right tools and know-how to do this type of work properly and safely.
* The main trailer deck is 26' long and I added a 10' hydraulic dovetail last weekend for a total usable deck length of 36'. This also gives the ramp length I need to winch them onto the trailer.
* I will not hire it out as I have called around and it will cost nearly what it did to purchase the containers in the first place( the containers are already mostly built inside for my home, so I can't just buy new ones). They will be moved about 80 miles mostly highway. 3 containers..
* Yes the containers are absolutely engineered to have weight bearing in the corners. However, that is assuming they are loaded near their max of nearly 67klbs, as they sit now they are only around 10-11kish(8700lbs empty), being supported 4' from the end will have no adverse effects on the structural integrity of the container.
* I considered sliding axles but that only gets me to as far back as I have them now and would involve more work.
* I am in Ohio and this is a registered farm truck so laws are a little more lenient for farming operations if I were to be breaking any(which I don't think I am)...
* Tomorrow I am adding extra permanent tail lights to the new hydraulic dovetail and extending the trailer brake wires. That will take care of not having to have magnetic lights on the container. Also to be installed is a new Prodigy P3 brake controller( I have been wanting one of these for a long time, who has one on their rig??)

As the trailer sits empty right now it should be at about 16% tongue weight. That would obviously decrease with an empty container loaded since it hangs 4' off the back, but with the 1500lbs in the front of the container it should be ok. I can add as much more load as I need as well, the truck is good for 8t in the bed so I shouldn't be getting anywhere close to tongue weight capacity on the pintle(hitch plate is only about 3' from axle).

My plan is to get it loaded up and take it down the road. It is country road but open enough to get up to 60-65 so I can see how it feels. If it feels unsafe I will absolutely turn around and park it until I add a few feet to the rear of the trailer and move the axles back some more. I have looked at a lot of pics of trailers, companies haul containers on, and I have seen some that only have the axle 24-25' back(although most setups are closer to 28-30') but that is with an empty container.

I'm aware of all the physics that go into safe trailer travel. I'm that guy that gets about sick when I see someone driving a lifted truck with a 6x10' trailer and the tongue is 14" higher than the rear of the trailer. I am always **** about the trailer sitting properly level, use appropriately sized ball/hitch receivers, using weight distributing hitches and sway control when necessary, and making sure trailer brakes work and are adjusted properly.

I appreciate everyone's time who responded. What other cautions can you guys throw at me that maybe I haven't thought of? I'll be sure to post some nice pics in the morning of my work and the rig.

 

[4570Man]

I think you’re overthinking the whole process. With an 8k container and a 20k trailer just get a pre cast concrete block or something else heavy and put on the front. The huge tailswing would be my biggest concern then. Every time I use my dads prodigy 3 controller it leaves me wanting to throw it out the window. The prodigy 2 is much better IMO.