422 engine

[BobRip]

Change compression ratio and new carburator?

 

[Beechwood]

Wow; I just came home to grab some lunch before I head back to the job site and checked how this thread is going. Bob you are getting very close, but the 18,20, and 22HP engines already have the same compression ratio. You are half right so far. You might be the Grand prize winner !, to receive one of my " Grumpy Old ******* Coffee Mugs " I'll check back later.

Beechwood
PS. How do you guys add the smiley faces?

 

[DHS]

On some motors with the same displacement they change the carburator and with some boat motors they increase the top rpm to increase HP.

Dale

 

[KMA]

PS. How do you guys add the smiley faces?

If you use the "Post Reply" button (versus the "Quick Reply") there are some Smilies on the right you can click on to add into the text of your post. When using "Quick Reply", you'll need to remember the character combinations. For example (illustration only, you must remove any spaces between characters):

= : o
= : )
= : (
= : confused :
= : mad :
= : p
= ; )
= : D
= : rolleyes :
= : cool :
= : eek :

Hope that makes sense.

So... do we need to buy the same carb that's on the 25HP model then?

 

[Beechwood]

Kevin;
The 22HP engine shares the same carb intake manifold as the 64 & 63 but the 25HP bore, stroke, compression rato, and displacement is different. The 25 has a block mounted oil cooler and a different governor spring set so I'm not sure how the larger mm carb would work on the 22HP engines.
I am going to install the 22HP carb on my 180 and adjust the throttle stop as bob stated and adjust the governor spring locations. You guys still haven't figured out my other planned change yet. Go back to one of my earlier replys ,( riddle/hint ).

 

[BobRip]

I would change the cam shaft if I were you.

 

[J_J]

Kevin;
The 22HP engine shares the same crab intake manifold as the 64 & 63 but the HP bore, stroke, compression rato, and displacement is different. The 25 has a block mounted oil cooler and a different governor spring set so I'm not sure how the larger mm carb would work on the 22HP engines.
I am going to install the 22HP carb on my 180 and adjust the throttle stop as bob stated and adjust the governor spring locations. You guys still haven't figured out my other planned change yet. Go back to one of my earlier replys ,( riddle/hint ).

Well, you could use Aviation gas, a roots blower and add a nitro bottle for those hair raising hill climbing escapades.

Why not change it out for a 25 hp Kohler?

 

[Beechwood]

JJ;
So far the only difference I can see in the owners manual and parts manuals for the 18hp, 20hp, and 22hp engines is the carburetor and governor settings. At one time I had thought about up grading to the 22hp engine, but if all it takes is changing out the carb, adjusting the governor settings, and adding dual exhaust I'll go that route. It will be a lot cheaper money wise and easer to add some HP.

 

[J_J]

JJ;
So far the only difference I can see in the owners manual and parts manuals for the 18hp, 20hp, and 22hp engines is the carburetor and governor settings. At one time I had thought about up grading to the 22hp engine, but if all it takes is changing out the carb, adjusting the governor settings, and adding dual exhaust I'll go that route. It will be a lot cheaper money wise and easer to add some HP.

You are probably right, that is just about the way the older Harleys did to improve that engine. larger carb, and straight exhaust.

 

[Beechwood]

JJ ;
One of the 3 motocross bikes I used to own was a Harley 175, believe it or not. They only produced them for a couple of years, I did a lot of engine work on that bike , I changed out the 27mm square valve carb with a 34mm Mikuni ( if my memory is correct )and reed valve induction.Then I added a 6" power bellow exhaust, changed the eng. and wheel sprocket gears, and bored & relined the jug. I had to add a compression release just to kick start the micro beast, but that compression release was great for flat track racing- I never needed to use the brakes going into a corner.

 

[Bob999]

JJ;
So far the only difference I can see in the owners manual and parts manuals for the 18hp, 20hp, and 22hp engines is the carburetor and governor settings.

Has anyone checked to see what differences there are in the PT pumps and motors between the 18, 22, and 25? Those differences might be as important, if not more important, than the difference in HP of the engine.

 

[Beechwood]

Has anyone checked to see what differences there are in the PT pumps and motors between the 18, 22, and 25? Those differences might be as important, if not more important, than the difference in HP of the engine.

Thats a good point. Before I get too involved with this project I'll have to look into that. Thanks- I really didn't give that much thought.

 

[J_J]

Thats a good point. Before I get too involved with this project I'll have to look into that. Thanks- I really didn't give that much thought.

According to the specs, the 18,22, put out 8 gpm at 2000 psi, and 25 puts out 8 gpm's at 2500 psi for the PTO.

 

[BobRip]

The parts that I listed are all different at least between two of the three engines.

 

[Beechwood]

The parts that I listed are all different at least between two of the three engines.

Unless I'm missing something this is the parts list I have;

PISTON std size not oversize --EH63-64-65 #263-23411-A3 (same)
CONNECTING ROD --EH63-64-65 #263-22501-00 (same)
CRANKCASE--EH63-64-65 #263-10101-01 (same)
CRANKSHAFT-- (depends on PTO shaft size needed for 180, 422, 425)
CAMSHAFT-- EH63-64-65 #263-31701-03 (same)
INTAKE MANIFOLD-- EH63-64-65 #263-33001-03 (same)
GOVERNOR SPRING-- EH63-64 #263-42503-A3
EH65-72 #263-42501-03
BAFFLE#1--EH63-64-65 #263-52601-01 (same)
BAFFLE#2--EH63-64-65 #263-52704-A1 (same)
CABURETORS-- EH63 #263-62503-00
EH64 #263-62403-00
EH65 #263-62303-00
THROTTLE SHAFT-- EH63 #263-62532-08
EH64 #263-62531008
EH65 #263-62530-08

According to the parts manual all other components not listed here are the same for all 3 engines not including the EH72-25HP engine

 

[Beechwood]

As far as I can tell- The only different parts are;

GOVERNOR SPRING
CARBURETOR
THROTTLE SHAFT

So if someone wanted to derate their 422 W 22HP robin engine to a 18HP just install the parts above for the EH63 18HP Robin ,or vice-versa to up grade from a EH63 18HP to a EH65 22HP Robin install the parts above for the EH65, then adjust carb settings, governor settings and throttle shaft settings to the 22HP specs. I don't know about anyone else, but this all makes sense to me.

 

[Bob999]

According to the specs, the 18,22, put out 8 gpm at 2000 psi, and 25 puts out 8 gpm's at 2500 psi for the PTO.

If I understand correctly the specs JJ lists are for the PTO pump. That still leaves the pump for the aux circuit and the variable displacement pump that powers the wheel motors. And of course there are the wheel motors that are probably different.

 

[Beechwood]

If I understand correctly the specs JJ lists are for the PTO pump. That still leaves the pump for the aux circuit and the variable displacement pump that powers the wheel motors. And of course there are the wheel motors that are probably different.

I don't know yet what effect a 22HP engine would have on the 180 pumps and wheel motors. I don't think 3-4 more HP will make that bigger difference, but I will be contacting White MFG tech. dept. to find out what the max recomended HP is for those rolla-stator wheel motors etc. If the 18HP is maxiing out the 180 wheel motors, pumps, etc. now --that will put an end to my quest to add a few more horsepower- I'll have to be content with keeping everything as-is.

 

[KMA]

I believe what Bob999 was getting at (please correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the wheel motors/pumps used on the 180 may have a more impact on "power" than the engine output. In other words, additional HP is likely not the only thing that makes the 422 and the 425 more "powerful".

 

[BobRip]

I believe what Bob999 was getting at (please correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the wheel motors/pumps used on the 180 may have a more impact on "power" than the engine output. In other words, additional HP is likely not the only thing that makes the 422 and the 425 more "powerful".

The wheel motors do have impact and so does the engine, but try this test. When you climb a steep hill does the engine bog down or do the wheels just stop turning. If the engine bogs down, then a more powerful motor will help. If the wheels just stop turning with the motor at full speed then the limitation is the wheel motors. This is just my opinion, and I am not an expert.
On the 422 I think a bigger engine would help. However the 425 has a bigger engine, bigger hydraulic motor that drives the wheels, and more powerful wheel motors so PT felt all three were needed. If my engine died I would definately put in a bigger engine.