425 Need help

[Central_PA_Chris]

Howdy all,

I have a PT425, 28 hours on it (mostly mowing) had it about 15 months, of which it's been in a shop for 6+ and in late fall/winter/early spring drydock for almost the entire other 9.

In addition to the problems which landed it in the shop, it seems to have lots of trouble with what I'd call minor hills and slopes, not wanting to climb, spinning one wheel (isn't this thing supposed to be 4 wheel drive?) and getting flummoxed by terrain that a honda accord would traverse with impunity.

I'd be very grateful if another 425 (or similar model) owner in PA would be willing to let me tow this thing to you to test drive to see if it performs as yours does or if when used by someone with experience it has a significant issue that I need to drag it back to Tazwell for. Drop me a PM or post if you are willing to lend a hand to one of the less lucky/successful/happy members of the Power Trac family. I'm in the central PA area, a bit outside of State College, so most of the state is in easy road trip range. I tend to get to the NE/Scranton area frequently, and occasionally down to the Pittsburgh region, so might be able to tie a test mission into a regular trip.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[SnowRidge]

I'm not in PA or otherwise close enough. However, I'm interested in your problem.

Do you have a situation where one wheel spins while the other wheel on the same side doesn't rotate?

If that is the case, the only things I can think of that would cause that is a hydraulic plumbing error or a wheel motor with a serious internal leak. The wheels should be plumbed in series on each side. The two sides are plumbed in parallel.

Normally, if a wheel loses traction, it won't spin any faster than its mate on the same side, since the fluid must pass through both wheel motors for either to rotate. Once in awhile, you may see a little extra slow motion speed up by the slipping wheel as fluid equalizes in the hoses, but it usually is less than one full revolution.

If a wheel motor were to go bad in a manner that allowed the fluid to bypass interally, you possibly could get a situation as you describe. I've not heard of anyone having that sort of failure, but it may be possible. In that case, the bad motor would essentially be along for the ride.

Why has the machine been in the shop, and who is doing the work on it?

 

[ernemats]

Chris I have a 422 with 1,320 hours on it over the past 8 years and also an older 1845 slope mower. I live about 2 hours away from you down toward Pittsburgh. If you want to stop by and try my 422 on my hills or bring your 425 you are more than welcome. I am about 15 miles west of Johnstown between New Florence and Ligonier.

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

Hey all,

A member about a half hour south of me with a 425 has offered to help, so I'm good to go at the moment. If I need more help, Bolivar is in my line of travel on a trip next week. Thanks for all the offers of help.

If I go up a slope, one that a 2-wheel drive car or truck can take (barely), the PT slows, I let off the treadle as machine slows, eventually nothing is spinning despite hearing load on the engine. If I press a bit more on the treadle sometimes ONE tire starts spinning, digging in but generally not propelling the machine forward, many times it gives a half spin and the machine stalls, but it's just one tire (in my recent round of testing it's been rear). I believe the other tires do have some drive power to them as I've seen the front spin as well.

I'll probably take a video camera to the side by side test to document.

Chris

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

As for the issue it's been in the shop for, I'm this guy....

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/107255-bad-power-trac-experience.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/114149-pointer-425-tbn-classifieds.html

The problem seemed to be solved by the air filter replacement, but I didn't get to mow much at the end of 07 (just one run on dryed out weed filled fields when it was very cold out).

Fired her up this spring and still have overheating issues after a short run of mowing. Gets so hot in there (after about 3-4 hours of mowing in cool spring weather) the engine stalls and the gas tank is bubbling like an overheated radiator from gas vapor flowing violently back into the tank from the carb and the air filter was again wet with oil. The next day I decided to do more trouble shooting (had a IR thermometer to get surface temps with) one of the mower blades got stuck on one of the kickback stops, I freed it but jammed again on next fire up. I decided I was frustrated and discontinued any testing as my busy work season was starting up and dropped it off at the shop, that was early May. Got it back last week, shop concluded poor design of muffler, restricted airflow over the engine makes it an intermittent use machine not designed or meant for mowing for more than a few hours at a clip before a few hour cool down/rest.

The sum of my experience leads me to believe I got a bad machine right from the start. Maybe bad engine, maybe, bad hydraulics, maybe both. I don't know because this is the only one I've ever driven/used. So now it's time to drive another/have someone experienced drive mine. If another performs as I think it should, then I call Terry and if they will help me after I've expressed my negative opinions here, I probably drive it the 8 hours to Tazwell and sit for a few days while it gets looked at or drop it off and have to make the trek twice.

I like a lot of things about this machine and really want to like it as a whole, but my overall experience has been horrible and I'm afraid that keeping it means more of these shenanigans for the life of the tractor. I'm more let down and disappointed than angry, but I should probably be that too.

Chris

P.S. I really don't like being a downer on these forums, this seems like it should be an incredible machine and y'all are a great helpful group of enthusiasts that I'd really like to join in welding up new attachments and enjoying the machine, but I can't use it for more than 4 hours before something (large or small) breaks and it's hard to maintain enthusiasm under those conditions.

EDIT: For example, yesterday I had it up at my dad's place to try it on some different hills. Still wasn't good, Dad said it had to have issues as no tractor should have the slope climbing issues this one does. Today I go to fire it up to get it off the trailer. Engine turns over but will not start. I'll try jumping it, but this is the last thing I need on this tractor, yet another problem. Maybe I just flooded it when starting, but it's never happened before.

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

Jumped it (started instantly and started sounded less anemic under jump voltage, so maybe new battery time), took it out to mow for an hour on low slope (2 to 4% grade). Can really feel the difference between uphill and downhill in speed you can mow, but in the hour didn't notice any heat related issues, it was also cold enough that after a brief rain shower I was almost shivering, so not a warm day.

In a little off kilter ditch area I got both left side tires to spin at the same speed, when the right spins it's just the rear. I may need to play with that some more to confirm that that is always the case, but maybe the front right wheel motor is bad and is putting a load on the system, especially when things are hot or is putting more of a load on the system than it should when worked (as in going up hill).

 

[Marks481]

I really don't like being a downer on these forums

Don't worry about it; that is what this forum is all about. If you have problems, bring them up and let everyone try to help. You have definitely been much more restrained and gentlemanly about your difficulties then I would be if my PT had all the problems you have had in such a short time.

re: overheating and bubbling gas tank. I think this is a combination of PT crummy muffler design and the location of the gas pump. The muffler and exhuast header tends to trap heat under the engine cowling (the top of my list to fix, ala Rivco's solution). The gas pump is right next to the muffler, so it probably gets way too hot.

The first solution step is to replace the cheap clear plastic gas line with some thick rubber tubing to keep the heat away from the fuel. At least one person here replaced the fuel pump with an electric pump. You could also simply relocate the mechanical fuel pump (as it is driven by a "pulse pipe" instead of a mechanical shaft).

 

[SnowRidge]

In a little off kilter ditch area I got both left side tires to spin at the same speed, when the right spins it's just the rear. I may need to play with that some more to confirm that that is always the case, but maybe the front right wheel motor is bad and is putting a load on the system, especially when things are hot or is putting more of a load on the system than it should when worked (as in going up hill).

Assuming the ground wasn't soupy wet, for one side to spin, you usually have to have something unloading those wheels, like the belly hanging up on a high spot, which is pretty unusual with a Power Trac.

The other thing to watch for is the joystick coming out of float position, which can unload the front wheels if there is any down pressure on the mower. Some owners have had a problem with their machines staying in float. There is at least one thread here on the subject.

It might be worthwhile to put the machine up on four jack stands to see if all the wheels turn at the same rate under various treadle positions. They should.

A floor jack and four short jack stands come in very handy if you own a Power Trac.

 

[BobRip]

As for the issue it's been in the shop for, I'm this guy....


Chris, when mowing on a hill, I find that I sometimes have to lift the mower a little to take the weight on of its wheels and transfer it to the PT. This give the PT better traction. Have you tried this?

 

[Phils]

Chris,

You didn't have the PT long before the fire IIRC. Could the Robin mechanic have screwed up a hydraulic part (pump or hose) or connected them incorrectly when reinstalling? We are all looking forward to hearing the verdict when you compare PTs with your nearby TBN member.

And as far as the hot engine, boiling fuel, stalling, running lean... it'll run lean when the fuel is boiling... which makes the engine run hotter ... which makes the fuel hotter... until the engine stops. Find the threads on adding a second cooling fan. My overheat and vaporlock problems are history. And it wasn't an expensive fix.

Before the fan I installed an electric pump but believe the cooling fan might've solved my problems without it. It mostly comes back to the lousy exhaust and muffler design.

Phil