430 'chattering' when going up slope

[Richard]

I've got a field I cut (flat and smooth, much like a lawn) and next to it is a hill.

I cut these yesterday. On the flat part everything was normal. (takes me about 2 hours to cut all this)

By the time I got to the hill part, I got most of it done. I kept noticing however, that the forward/reverse lever was acting strange. It seemed as though it was adjusting itself down the scale.

Meaning... I normally (on the flat straight part) have the lever in full speed ahead. When I turn, or otherwise need, I back off to appropriate speed. Well, it was going "full speed" with the lever in the detent location as opposed to full up. I later noticed that my reverse was wonky. Ultimately to later find out I don't HAVE a reverse. Even in FULL reverse, the mower is still moving forward at a slow speed. When I have the lever over in the "start" mode, the transmission is going at a nice clip. If I have it in the "cruise" detent, it's going full speed.

The above is sort of cutting to the chase because before I figured this out....I was going up the hill, it slowed down and near stopped (it's never done this before and just this spring I gave it a new filter and new JD transmission fluid)

Anyway so I'm going up the hill and all the sudden it pretty much stops and the lever starts vibrating/chattering. I pulled it back to "stop" (hahahahaha since it still wanted to go) but the chattering stopped. Then after it calmed down, I could proceed. I have some flat spots that I cut adjacent to this slope and when I went on them, it worked fine (though the range of the lever seemed to have shifted down the column)

I'm a bit perplexed unless there is some attachment near transmission that can allow this to be adjusted relative to the transmission. That however, doesn't explain the chattering (made noise too)

I've never had this happen until yesterday.

Thoughts??

 

[beenthere]

Assume the fluid level shows "full". Did you verify that?

Which JD tranny fluid? low vis or regular vis ?

 

[Richard]

Attempted to.... but can't really tell. I wish they'd use colored oil....or dramatically colored instead of essentially clear!!

I'm not 100% sure which oil was used but I THINK it was their low viscosity. Since I was at the dealer, I didn't question any of it. Did a full transmission fluid change about a month ago and likely over-filled it.

Here's the thing (in my mind) If it was low on fluid, I would NOT expect low fluid to for example..... cause it to move forward when lever is in 100% full reverse. I would not expect it to move forward at 'normal to fast' ground speed when lever is in the starting detent.

Not knowing how the levers connect to the actual transmission, it's almost like something has slipped out of adjustment and now everything has shifted down a bit on the scale (reverse is slow forward, slow forward is normal ground speed, start detent is near full speed and "full speed" gains you nothing)

When on flat ground, there's no chattering yet. The chattering was when going up hill (which brought the idea of starvation to me) because when I stopped and sat.....then resumed (allowing the oil to settle down?) it then would go further.....but then chatter again.

I simply parked it because I've got a larger project I'm working on so went to park it.....BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP!!! Remember... "100% reverse is slow forward"..... so averted hitting my backhoe and got it parked sideways on the grass next to the driveway, wheels chocked so it won't roll and broadside the wife's car in a very slow motion wreck! (happened once but don't tell her)

 

[BravoXray]

It almost sounds like something has slipped or gotten loose in the linkage that goes from the F/R lever to the transmission.

This is the parts breakdown for the hydro linkage. It would appear to me the a possibility is that part #22 is a roll pin, and if that has broken or fallen out the arm, #23, it's going to slip on the swashplate shaft.
Also, in the breakdown for the later serial numbers, they changed to a shaft that was square on the end with a matching lever. Possibly this was a common point of failure.

Just something to check.

 

[Kish318420]

Just to let you know that there are 4 versions of the hydrostatic linkage assemblies over the life of production. So I would recommend getting familiar with the JD parts site, also document what you have.

 

[Deere Dude]

I had a 420 that had a sheared roll pin in the linkage where it hooked to the transmission. It had just enough friction left where it would work sometimes but other times not.
lt worked when gently moved.

 

[BravoXray]

I had a 420 that had a sheared roll pin in the linkage where it hooked to the transmission. It had just enough friction left where it would work sometimes but other times not.
lt worked when gently moved.

The 60" deck on my 430 had a roll pin holding the pulley on the shaft on the bottom of the gearbox. It broke, and the pulley slid down the shaft, quickly destroying the belt, pulley and the shaft. It has a bolt in it now.

 

[Richard]

Update on the rest of the story... (which isn't 100% finished yet)

I've parked the mower as I've been working on other (wife) projects... when I cut the field, I just pull out the woods RFM and put it behind one of the tractors. (it leaves a lot more clumps than this mower which I find interesting)

Anyway... so yesterday, I had some time to dig into this. Drove it up to driveway, took rear seat/quarter panels off. Got floor jacks (I was preparing to remove both rear tires in expectation that I'd have to remove transmission)

Found out that I could lift and wiggle the fuel tank kind of out of the way and then I saw the turnbuckle (part 19 on above schematic). I knew immediately that it was at least part of my issue, if not all of it. It has been coming unscrewed and getting longer which explains why the range was "moving" down the levers path.

Long story short, I tightened it up and with a bit of being nervous (because at this time, if the motor is running, the mower is MOVING with NO way of stopping it) So being a bit nervous but at the same time, pretty confident.... I stood beside the mower and started it. It didn't lurch but just barely moved. I adjusted it a bit more, tried again and now it stayed in place.

Feeling good about this, I put tank back in proper orientation, put seat/quarter panels back on and jumped on for a joy ride around the field. Worked like a champ pretty much confirming that this was my issue.

I headed over to the hill and it got a bit wonky again. Not the lever but just forward power. So I'm presuming that I'm low on fluid in spite of a fresh change just prior to this starting. Both of my rear seals weep transmission fluid and the inside of the wheels are constantly dirty where dust sticks to the oil.

When I had taken it apart to do this before, I cleaned most of said dirt out of the brake/wheel area which now suggests to me I've 'opened up the dam' and the oil might be flowing a bit more free than it was when it had 5 years of caked dirt on it.

That's speculation at this point. My intent now is to yank the wheels/axels off and replace the seals. I'm suspecting that my issues will be resolved when I do that (but at the pace I go, that could still be a couple weekends away)

Still, progress is progress!! I can put more oil in to cut field and get the nicer cut. (and I've got brand new blades on the Woods.... well.... I guess that BOTH have new blades)

 

[Richard001]

Great update. Hope you put some thread locker on those jam nuts.

 

[daisyman]

Attempted to.... but can't really tell. I wish they'd use colored oil....or dramatically colored instead of essentially clear!!

I'm not 100% sure which oil was used but I THINK it was their low viscosity. Since I was at the dealer, I didn't question any of it. Did a full transmission fluid change about a month ago and likely over-filled it.

Here's the thing (in my mind) If it was low on fluid, I would NOT expect low fluid to for example..... cause it to move forward when lever is in 100% full reverse. I would not expect it to move forward at 'normal to fast' ground speed when lever is in the starting detent.

Not knowing how the levers connect to the actual transmission, it's almost like something has slipped out of adjustment and now everything has shifted down a bit on the scale (reverse is slow forward, slow forward is normal ground speed, start detent is near full speed and "full speed" gains you nothing)

When on flat ground, there's no chattering yet. The chattering was when going up hill (which brought the idea of starvation to me) because when I stopped and sat.....then resumed (allowing the oil to settle down?) it then would go further.....but then chatter again.

I simply parked it because I've got a larger project I'm working on so went to park it.....BUT IT WOULDN'T STOP!!! Remember... "100% reverse is slow forward"..... so averted hitting my backhoe and got it parked sideways on the grass next to the driveway, wheels chocked so it won't roll and broadside the wife's car in a very slow motion wreck! (happened once but don't tell her)

I have 2 430's and experienced the same trouble as you with the fast/slow speeds at the same setting. It definately is the linkage. The 420's and 430's are noted for it. Make sure ALL the play is out of the linkage. As for the sight glass and hoses, I did not put the glass back in the holder, but attached it loosely to the side of it with a zip tie. Then you can slide it down or up to see where the oil level is. It's impossible to fill the trans up on the left side of the dash, in that miserable small hose and watch the sight glass at the same. If you can get the oil in it without spilling some, you're a better man than me!!!! HA!