4300 repeatedly breaks turnbuckle,

iamgott · Jun 19, 2003

I re-edited this, these first few lines.
First, My apologies to Mr. Miller for my response to his reply, Im sorry, this ordeal just has me so upset. I hope after or "if" he reads the rest of what I posted, Mr. Miller may feel differently, if not I accept the fact that he's not walking where I am.
I left the post intact, the way I wrote it, but again, I apologize for the wording.
I really want er'one to know, that much of my problems were a direct cause of my local dealer, but in as much, I have had, and still do have, a persitant problem that no one from John Deere has ever really addressed and I had brought it to their attention long ago, over a year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,end of edit

Well, Im sorry to say, John Deere has let me down, as well as the local dealer. I have had repeated problems with the right side turnbuckle breaking, it was replaced many, "at least 10 times under warranty" The warranty expired last month, and sure enough, first job, it broke again. Not only did the turnbuckle break, but when it dropped, I was moving backwards with the box blade UP, it fell, cocked to one side and broke the axle housing "before I could stop". It happened in a flash. Anyway, I called John Deere, as well as sent an email. They called back and asked me to take it to the dealer so an area REP could look at it. After 3 days the dealer called me, he said that one of their salesman talked to the REP on the phone, and the REP finally stated "quote" "We have done enough for Mr. Brown". I asked: what? the REP didn't even come to look at it? The dealer said no, we just called him on the phone. I brought it to his attention that the corporate office told me to specifically bring it down so the AREA REP could look at it, and he replied well, I dont know what to tell ya, he said they would not do anything. IF I FELT THIS WAS DUE TO MY MIS-USE OR ABUSE OR EVEN PILOT ERROR AS SOMEONE HAD STATED, I WOULD NOT EVEN PURSUE IT!! THE FACT IS, THAT THIS "TURNBUCKLE HAS BROKE SEVERAL AND I MEAN SEVERAL TIMES, AND ALWAYS WHILE THE BOX BLADE IS/WAS IN THE RAISED POSITION. I PURCHASED THIS MACHINE FOR USE IN OUR BUSINESS, I EXPECT IT TO PERFORM AS A TRACTOR SHOULD AND IT HAS FAILED MISERABLY. I HAVE HAD SEVERAL OTHER PROBLEMS OF WHICH USUALLY I HAVE HAD TO TAKE BACK REPEATEDLY TO GET THE SAME ITEM REPAIRED AS THEY NEVER TESTED AFTER REPAIRING. IM SORRY, BUT THE 4300, IN MY BOOK, DOES NOT RATE AS A TRACTOR, MAYBE A GLORIFIED LAWNMOWER. TO THIS DAY, I REMAIN IMPRESSED WITH ITS POWER, BUT FULLY FRUSTRATED AS THE 3 POINT ASEMBLY FAILS MISERABLY, AND REPEATEDLY. THIS IS DEFINETELY AN ENGINEERING ERROR/DEFECT. i AM SURE THERE ARE MANY OUT THERE THAT HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THE PROBLEMS I HAVE, BUT THEN AGAIN, DO THEY USE THEIR MACHINE AS IT IS BEING MARKETED SUITABLE FOR? I WAS TOLD THIS MACHINE WAS SUITABLE FOR WHAT WE DO, BUT IT HAS BEEN IN THE SHOP OVER 20 TIMES IN 2 YEARS, AND NOW THEY EXPECT ME TO ABSORB THE COST OF KEEPING IT RUNNING. AS SOON AS IT IS REPAIRED, I PLAN ON PUTTING A SIGN ON IT FOR EVERYONE TO READ, MAYBE FOR A MONTH, THEN IM GONNA TRADE IT IN OR SELL IT, AND GET ME A REAL MACHINE, IM SORRY, I DONT MEAN TO OFFEND ANY JOHN DEERE OWNERS, BUT THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM SINCE I PURCHASED THE MACHINE, I PUT 1/2 DOWN WHEN I PURCHASED IT, AND TO TRADE IN ON ANOTHER DEERE, I WOULD LOOSE OVER $8000.00 DOLLARS, WOW!! NOW THATS DEPRECIATION!!! LESS THAN 400 HOURS, OVER 20 TIMES IN THE SHOP, AND STILL HAVE PROBLEMS?? IF YOU "REALLY" USE IT, "ITS GONNA BREAK" TRUST ME!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

OH, JUST IN CASE ANYONE MIGHT BE INTERESTED, I PLAN ON CREATING A WEB SITE LISTING MY ORDEAL FROM START TO FINISH, WHEN DONE, I WILL POST A LINK. I THINK ANYONE LOOKING TO PURCHASE SHOULD BE AWARE OF WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED. NIGHTMARE BEYOND ANYONES WILDEST IMAGINATION, THIS WAS ATUALLY MY SECOND 4300, THE FIRST WAS JUST AS BAD, BUT I FIGURED IT WAS A LEMON SO I BOUGHT A NEW ONE, "RIGHT"

garchib · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I would stay on John Deere and call them every day at the dealership
at the corporate office, threaten to have your lawyer get involved
and fight this tooth and nail......I am very sorry for what you have gone
through. The way they are handling this is ridiculous.....also, you could contact your state Attorney General's office, as well as the Better Business Bureau.....Keep on fighting this until you get satisfaction ! You deserve it after what you have been through. I just went through
a lemon law event with my wife's car and one the state got involved, we
finally got the thing fixed after 5 failed attempts.

JohnMiller3 · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

“…THIS WAS DUE TO MY MIS-USE OR ABUSE OR EVEN PILOT ERROR AS SOMEONE HAD STATED, I WOULD NOT EVEN PURSUE IT!! THE FACT IS, THAT THIS "TURNBUCKLE HAS BROKE SEVERAL AND I MEAN SEVERAL TIMES, AND ALWAYS WHILE THE BOX BLADE IS/WAS IN THE RAISED POSITION…

i AM SURE THERE ARE MANY OUT THERE THAT HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THE PROBLEMS I HAVE…

I have had repeated problems with the right side turnbuckle breaking, it was replaced many, "at least 10 times under warranty"…”

No offense Sir, have you ever considered rethinking your adjustment procedures on your anti-sway chains on your 3-point hitch…?

Your short story has already told volumes… if Deere & Company replaced it over “10 times” under warranty… not only did the dealer and mfr. go above and beyond the call of duty… they went to “outerspace” to please ya…

Unfortunately, you can abuse the system only so many times… when “enough… becomes enough…” /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

BillyP · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I agree with you, John. There's more to this story than has been told here.

_RaT_ · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I simply suspect the 3 pt hitch setup on the 4300 is not designed for reverse use of the boxscraper. Our NH 2120 certainly was not. Rather then the sways or casting breaking, the lower draft bars simply bent. It did not take much. We don't use it in that fashion anymore. I don't know what adjustment would be necessary or even could be done to eliminate this from happening. To much slack can create as many problems as none, in fact, more depending on the weight of the implement. I may have to rethink posting about boxscraping in reverse. I have done monumental amounts of earth cutting this way. Perhaps not encouraging it at all for others even though boxscrapers are clearly designed to be run in reverse. I do not know if this is where your problem occured, but I'm sure it does exert tremendous loads on the lower links and sways. My suggestion is to repair it, sell it and really examine any perspective future tractor with a great deal of scrutiny where the 3 pt setup is involved. Sorry for all your troubles, Rat...

iamgott · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Another re-edit: I apologize for my tone below Mr. Miller and Billy, Im sorry, Im just so upset. I took it somewhat personal "abuse the system" but I now realize you are not aware of the games that have been played here, and maybe, if you knew everything involved, you might feel differently. I myself in my statement, "No More John Deere" may give some the wrong impression. Right here, right now, its not so much the machine in itself. There's alot more involved here, but the turnbuckle has been a problem since day 1!!.

I leave the post below intact, and I apologize again for my words/reply to Mr. Miller

Mr. Miller, first off, this machine does not have sway chains, it has solid adjustable brackets. Abuse the system? It was them who chose to keep replacing the defective part, I would have been much happier if they addressed the problem with why it keeps breaking. You have made some rather harsh comments directed at myself and you really dont have a clue. I can tell, right away, that your biased towards John Deere for some reason or other, it dont matter to me, but it shows that you utter statements without knowing the real history. "short story speaks volumes?" I could write at least a 20 page book on what has transpired with this machine, and the dealer. Once, when they delivered the first machine to my driveway, it fell apart while unloading from the trailer!! Then once on its way to the shop, the guy forgot to tie it down, he hit the brakes and it flew off the trailer causing extensive damage. Then they failed to notify me, after 2 weeks I called and then I found out. When I finally went down to get it, they expected me to take it with all broken plastic and such. Thats when I forced them to trade it in on a new one, and I paid full price for the new one. I also happen to know, that they claim to have replaced parts they did not, they put them in their inventory? I have no idea, but some of this was done at MY EXPENSE, as it required multiple trips to finally get it repaired and several days down time. Like I said, YOU HAVE NO IDEA, and Im not trying to offend you either, but with what I have been through on this machine, plus the first one, I dont take lightly to someone pointing a finger in my direction and placing blame. I have a friend who works for another dealer, on of the largest in the south east, they have 15 repair bays and most are occupied on a daily basis. I have discussed this with him over the past 2 years, and he has told me it was not unusual. He stated that they have had tractors come back for repair many more times than mine, most with the same problems. He was a General Manager with the company, he said it got so bad "him having to deal with unhappy customers" that he now works for "one of the other companies". So I take what you have said very LIGHTLY, and with a TUB of salt. On the first machine, they delivered it with a 15" tire on one side and a 14" on the other "front". I didn't realize it right away, but a few months later, when I did, they refused to replace it with the right size tire "exchange the 14" for a 15". I ended up having to purchase the tire and rim!!!!! hehehehehe??? They said tires were not covered under warranty, and I vehemently protested, saying, but you delivered it that way and it does not belong on the machine!!! To no avail, I just bought a new one, sheeeeeesh!!!
 Well, I definitely hope, before you start blaming me, you will wait for me to publish my page. I will be glad to provide a link to it when done. It will be the TRUTH, and nothing less. I do not blame the machine itself so much, but when either the dealer, or the manufaturer fails to offer a remedy, in this or any other problem I experienced, on down to the fast ones the dealer tryed to pull, Im sorry, but that says alot to me. Every time I took it for service that involved hydraulics, I would end up having to purchase fluid to finish filling it up, and I mean at least 1 gallon just to get it to the sight glass!! usually 2 gallons!! They have never effected a repair that was done right the first time, I have had to make multiple trips for each and every repair, but, because they hand me a turnbuckle when it breaks, through no fault of my own, it makes er'thing alright!!!! Maybe in you eyes, not mine. If they would have come forward and said : mr. Brown, we decided that the boxblade was to much for this machine, let us trade it for a 5' er, I would not have been happy, but I would have done it, anything to avoid more trips to their shop. At this point Im paranoid to even take it there to get fixed, as before, YOU HAVE NO IDEA. One time, the rockshaft valve went out, after they repaired it, I went to do a job. I barely got started when the whole rockshaft housing exploded!! For several weeks I tried to figure out what happened, they repaired it under warranty, no sweat, but finally, when I mentioned this to my friend "the tractor manager guy" he said it was most likely due to an adjustment that was not done correctly when the installed the rockshaft valve!! he explained it to me in detail, and I now firmly believe this was the cause. I can, and do, accept responsibility for a few mishaps, but this goes well beyond this. I paid alot of money for this machine, including the first, and you want to believe I would just go out and tear it up? I am approaching the 50 year mark and I feel I have enough wisdom to know and do better.
One more for the road, guess what? they also sold me a used brush hog, I used it for awhile, I knew it had a bent blade when I purchased it. Well one day, I decided I was gonna straighten it. First I tried doin it cold, no way, got the torches out, heated it up and straightened it out. That lasted a few days and broke, so I went and bought a new one, when I went to put it on it wouldn't fit. After checkin it out, I realized that somebody had cut almost a full foot off the back of the deck, and cut the blades to fit. I had no choice but to take the brand new blade and cut it to fit, needless to say, it never did mow right since the day I purchased it, and I thought it was just due to the bent blade, not that the whole thing had been cut down a foot!!! Happy Dreams gott

iamgott · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I apreciate the well thought out reply RAT. I do very little work in reverse, only a little tucking around forms and stuff. As I had said previously, it has "ALWAYS BROKE" in the up position, "BOX RAISED", when its not even in use!!!!!!!

 Now RAT has attempted to offer some advise in a clear consice way, and this, I TRULY APRECIATE" I have given this alot of thought, and I feel its due to the wieght of the 6' land pride box blade, its just to heavy, although other tractor manufacturers say it should not be. I also noticed, that on my machine, the pivots on the draft links are ever so slowly eating away at the attachment "ears" "points" on the axle shaft housing, maybe this played a part in their failing when the turnbuckle broke. I feel there should be a spacer/washer in there to prevent it from rubbing against the attachment points. Also, I do know, that if you break one, and look at what its made of, it looks like a hollow tube filled with cast metal, type unknown, but extremely light, maybe magnesium, the dealer called it Pot Metal/?? The dealer himself expressed amazment of what its made out of. The threaded portion, the part which keeps breaking on my tractor, is some type of cast, I believe if I go to a machine shop and have one made of actual steel, this problem would be solved. 

Also, I had taken the machine, several times to be repaired, like the 3 point control lever would get so hard to move you would actually bend the lever tryin to move it. I took it 4 times to get this repaired, and the first 3 times, they must have fixed the wrong thing, as it was not corrected until the 4th trip to the shop. This I blame the mechanic for, "NOT CHECKING HIS WORK, TO MAKE SURE ITS FIXED". The day I picked up the 2nd machine, upon arriving home, the loader would not raise, I jiggle the handle it would start working. I used it for a few weeks like this, I know it was in the control valve. Then one day it just went out completely, I had to take it to the shop 3 times to get it fixed. The first time they said they fixed a quick connect coupling, "I said alright, whatever you say" the second time they said they replaced the control valve, "I know for a fact they didn't, maybe cleaned it or somethin", the 3rd time they said they replaced the hydraulic cylinders, now this is where I drew the line, Im not as stupid as some might want to believe. But I know for a fact, that all cylinders could not have gone out at once, nor, would 1 alone cause the whole loader to stop working. This was just plain stupid!!! It finally did work, but ever since, its rate of drop is so bad that you dont want to leave it up for fear of it dropping and crushing something. And I know, they had to do something with the control Valve, and then lied to me. There was no reason for them to yank my chain "lie to me" I dont care what it was, I just wanted it back, and working. Meanwhile, I kinda wonder where all those extra parts ended up????? Darn sure not on my machine

 I really apreciate replies which tend to offer some help and wisdom, lord know's, I need all I can get. I also meant not so much to discredit the product itself, just those who one might look to for help when there's something wrong. I had tryed to offer my assistance to another member, I did not tell him to buy a different brand, just a bigger machine. I have no choice, as I can not, "will not" have anything more to do with this Local dealer, and it just so happens, he's the only one close enough for me to deal with on such a constant basis 

I DONT LIKE BEING LIED TO, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT, AND I DONT LIKE PEOPLE MANIPULATING THINGS AND POSSIBLE STEALING AT MY OWN EXPENSE!!! AND WHEN YOU TAKE SOMETHING TO GET FIXED, WHEN YOU PICK IT UP, YOU EXPECT IT TO BE FIXED, I HAVE HAD TO MAKE 2-3 TRIPS AND SOMETIMES 4, TO GET AN ITEM RESOLVED BECAUSE THE MECHANIC DIDN'T READ THE TICKET OR CHECK HIS WORK!!

I NOW HOPE CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO GET THE IDEA, AND ER'THING STATED IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH

2 YEARS, 1 MONTH, 396 HOURS, OVER 20 TRIPS FOR REPAIR, STILL BROKEN, AND JOHN DEERE TURNED THEIR BACK ON ME, AND THIS WERE JUST A FEW HIGHLIGHTS

iamgott · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

OH!! AND THANKS ALSO TO GARCHIB!!! Hey, if anyones a cb'er, Im usually on 28 when the skips rollin, and go by dirtdog 599

I have 2 choices, the other J Deere dealer is aprox. 40 miles, a new Holland dealer about the same, had John Deere expressed any interest in my plight, I would have probably opted to that way, but since they just turn a cold shoulder, with no concern for what has happened at the local level, I will probably at least, go look at a New Holland machine

dmp437 · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I like your choice of the other Deere dealer 40 miles away. My Snap-On dealer services several tractor dealerships and all the mechanics agree that the New Hollands have more issues than the Deere's and Kubota's. As far as the drive, I bypass several local dealers for my dirt bikes/quads and drive an hour away for the superior service/treatment, so I know what it's like putting the miles on.

_RaT_ · Jun 19, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Ed, I think John Miller is simply suspect as many of us are here about folks who are not what they say they are. That is, a brand X guy who may very well sell brand X bad mouthing brand Y. I'm sure its been done, and there is no verifiable way to insure the accuracy of posts. Certainly I am not accusing you of that, you certainly seem sincere. I would suggest perhaps some photos of the problem, perhaps if others have had this issue and can offer some of their experience. Emotions can run high from both perspectives, your problem is certainly understandably going to have a lot of emotion tied to it where John, whos experience here has really been a very valuable asset, not to mention his time trying to keep the place free of those things that often plague other opinion forums is going to bring into question an all out assault against any product and perhaps more so for a John Deere. Its just too easy for anyone to say anything and have it verified. It's no secret that after several years now of owning a Kubota, I wave their flag a little, but try to do so in either humorous or enlightening ways. I for one would like to see some pictures that bear more light on your problem. I must admit, not having a JD, I am puzzled and really would like to see whats going on. I will even discuss with my JD/Kubota dealer the issue and see if it is a reoccuring problem there. I have my tractor out on my driveway now and in between cooking up some salmon and sipping some adult beverage, I was going over the rear end trying to see what could fail on mine. I don't see it. My sways would have to go off a cliff to break. Mine do not use turn buckles but rather a sliding bar with a pin which allows quick setting or release of the sways. I cinch them up as tight as they can go which always allows for some play. I plow in reverse with my boxscraper routinely. Hoping it all works out for you, Rat...