Well, I couldn't take it anymore so I tore the whole thing apart tonight. I found that the dealer didn't take apart the bearing behind the large sprocket because the ring with a set screw that holds it all in place was stuck so bad I had to grind it off. You can see in the attached pictures that the bearing is worn on one side which could either be the problem or damage from the shaking and wobble. In another picture you will see the gear box on the auger and there is a gap between the auger tubes and the gearbox. I don't know if this is supposed to be tight here so if some one would check I would appreciate the advice. Other than those 2 things I cannot find anything else that looks out of the normal. There was another guy on here that had a problem with the gearbox and since I'm too much of a chicken to mess with it I will leave it alone. I'm a computer tech by trade but a decent mechanic and woodworker. I don't usually tackle these kinds of things but I had no alternative. It ticks me off that my dealer said he did this and he didn't. I will be in his face tomorrow morning. I have a pre tear down video I should have up soon as well. Let me know what you all think.
47 blower problem possibly solved?
- Thread starter rlcowder
- Start date
- Views: 3853
Deere_47_Blower.avi - Google VideoHere's the good video of the noise.
JDFANATIC
Veteran Member
rl,rlcowder said:
Gotcha, there is definately something wrong here!
I just got back from the dealer. I was way wrong. The bearing is designed that way to lock onto the shaft. The only other things it can be is the short shaft with the sprocket or the gear box itself. I checked out a new one on the floor and the gaps right next to the gear box are supposed to be there. I'm going to put the short shaft on a lathe and take some measurements. While I was there they started up a 2305 with a new blower. It made the same noise when lowered but only about 10% as bad a mine. I will keep you all posted.
Woodbeef
Veteran Member
I'd try getting ahold of Dan Chiru @ 613-324-3696 he is Sales Manager for Rad Technologies.
Jim_Fisher
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 306
- Location
- SE Pa (Chester County)
- Tractor
- John Deere 4300, John Deere 3010 w/48 loader
rlcowder said:
Has anyone checked the drive line? Make sure that the crosses of the u-joints of any telescoping shafts are aligned. If they aren't, the shaft will barrel stave.
Make sure that the u-joints work smoothly and that the shaft telescopes smoothly and is short enough to telescope at all height settings. The blower may move a bit closer to the tractor when pushing into an accumulation of snow.
the bearing in the first pic is not supposed to look like that. By that i mean the gouge/grind marks. The eccentric on the end of the inner race is for the lock ring. While you have it apart slide the augers off and take the shaft out of the gearbox looking for wear in the key/keyway on the shaft. This doesn't require actual dissembly of the gearbox itself. When troubleshooting mine for noise I found this to be the problem...
just looked at the vid...that is the EXACT same noise mine was making before key replacement.(bear in mind mine is on a 425). Def.would check for any play in the auger. somehow lock the impeller shaft from turning and see how much you can rotate the augers, shouldnt be more than a few degrees. The reason this makes so much noise is that any driveline not in perfect alignment actually accelerates and decelerates 4 times every rotation, simulating what happens when you grasp the augers and rock them back and fourth very rapidly. Incedently the driveline for these blowers can never be perfectly aligned by design, especially when you take into account the movement of the hitch. Same reason a p/u truck uses a double cardan joint (sometimes called constant velocity joint) at the transmission, and the joint at the axle is setup to have no angle except under extreme tourque ie. leaving from a stop w/ heavy load...enough to cause spring "wrap" -the vibration does occur then but the sepeed is so low it is unnoticeable...
Making sure the driveline is setup properly(phasing, angles etc.)can reduce the noise dramatically but it will never eliminate it fully due to the design of the single pivot hitch. I'm guessing the similar 47 blower for the 300/400 series is much quieter for no other reason than the parrallel link hitch design that it uses and its ability to keep the driveline angles aligned properly.
Making sure the driveline is setup properly(phasing, angles etc.)can reduce the noise dramatically but it will never eliminate it fully due to the design of the single pivot hitch. I'm guessing the similar 47 blower for the 300/400 series is much quieter for no other reason than the parrallel link hitch design that it uses and its ability to keep the driveline angles aligned properly.
Thanks Saselker. I just grouted my kitchen tile install so I won't be at it tonight but could you describe where the keys are. From what you wrote above I think you want me to remove the left and right augers on either side of the gear box. Are those keyways holding the augers to the shaft? Or is it something that will become obvious when I take the augers off? Did you ever find out what cause the keys to wear? I'm on of those OCD people who just has to know "WHY". It groves you see in the bearing are from me grinding it off. I didn't know there was a bearing that locked onto a shaft like that. That just shows my lack of experience and strong desire to not let it beat me.
Jim, We have checked and double checked all the U joints and shafts. In fact the dealer thought my long mid shaft was wobbling a little so they replaced it. I even have it all in phase now. I tried it out of phase just in case and that didn't work either. I will either beat this thing or trade up to a 2320 or 2520. Then nothing will stop me with a blade. I would keep the 2210 but the blade just doesn't lift high enough to stack the snow. Thanks everyone.
Jim, We have checked and double checked all the U joints and shafts. In fact the dealer thought my long mid shaft was wobbling a little so they replaced it. I even have it all in phase now. I tried it out of phase just in case and that didn't work either. I will either beat this thing or trade up to a 2320 or 2520. Then nothing will stop me with a blade. I would keep the 2210 but the blade just doesn't lift high enough to stack the snow. Thanks everyone.
HELLO
As said earlier in the thread do to the angle of the u-joint the noise will never totaly go away on the sub compacts. But if you know someone in a machine shop that can make you the small shaft/gear an the larger gear assembly so that there isn't such a extreme run out you will cut down alot of noise. JD allows the manufacture of the gears to much tolerance of run out. They have been making this blower for aprox 15 years so they think that everything is just fine. The dealers have told JD over and over about the noise. The only why that they will do anything now is if the customer contacts JD. I mean everybody on all these threads. There is a number to customer service in your manuel or you can go on there website. They will tell you to contact your dealer but you need to tell them that you have an your still not satified. Tell them it's not a problem with the dealer you talked to people all around the country that are having the same problem. LET YOU VOICE BE HEARD THATS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE PROBLEM FIXED.
As said earlier in the thread do to the angle of the u-joint the noise will never totaly go away on the sub compacts. But if you know someone in a machine shop that can make you the small shaft/gear an the larger gear assembly so that there isn't such a extreme run out you will cut down alot of noise. JD allows the manufacture of the gears to much tolerance of run out. They have been making this blower for aprox 15 years so they think that everything is just fine. The dealers have told JD over and over about the noise. The only why that they will do anything now is if the customer contacts JD. I mean everybody on all these threads. There is a number to customer service in your manuel or you can go on there website. They will tell you to contact your dealer but you need to tell them that you have an your still not satified. Tell them it's not a problem with the dealer you talked to people all around the country that are having the same problem. LET YOU VOICE BE HEARD THATS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE PROBLEM FIXED.
the key that was worn on mine was in the gearbox but it is not necessary to actually open it up to replace it. I removed the left and right augers from the shaft than slid the shaft out of the gearbox. The worn key will be in the shaft where the gearbox was. There is actually a hollow hub that the bearings and gears ride on...the shaft fits into that. Now there is another key that holds the gear to the hub but in my case that was not worn, I would check it though you will be able to tell if there is any "slop". Take a look in jdparts.com, the diagrams are pretty good showing the keys and such.
I am of the opinion that the keys wear due to the hammering these things take from the driveline(accel decel 4x times a revolution). The only real cure would to correct that. Just for kicks do a search on ebay for "deere 47" you'll find some listings for the earlier style 47 blowers-in the pictures you'll see the different style hitch these use. Notice how they use parrallel links to keep the blower (and impeller shaft) horizontal at all times. this keeps the driveline angles the same at both ends of the short shaft eliminating the accel decel hammering...this is not the case with the new style quick hitch...so much for the "improvement" I myself will be investigating the possibility of using a constant velocity joint at the machine end of the driveshaft or alternativly fabricating a new hitch that functions like the old style. My machine is quiet now but it is only a matter of time before the keys wear again. I don't believe JD will be adressing this any time soon as that would require them to admit they made a blatent design error.
All that being said I am still very happy with it overall and would not trade it for one of those belt drive arrangements. Like you I am a bit over the top when it comes to making things right.
I am of the opinion that the keys wear due to the hammering these things take from the driveline(accel decel 4x times a revolution). The only real cure would to correct that. Just for kicks do a search on ebay for "deere 47" you'll find some listings for the earlier style 47 blowers-in the pictures you'll see the different style hitch these use. Notice how they use parrallel links to keep the blower (and impeller shaft) horizontal at all times. this keeps the driveline angles the same at both ends of the short shaft eliminating the accel decel hammering...this is not the case with the new style quick hitch...so much for the "improvement" I myself will be investigating the possibility of using a constant velocity joint at the machine end of the driveshaft or alternativly fabricating a new hitch that functions like the old style. My machine is quiet now but it is only a matter of time before the keys wear again. I don't believe JD will be adressing this any time soon as that would require them to admit they made a blatent design error.
All that being said I am still very happy with it overall and would not trade it for one of those belt drive arrangements. Like you I am a bit over the top when it comes to making things right.
Labrat
Gold Member
My tractor was in the shop twice for the noise and vibration in the blower in early 04. They replaced several parts including the mid shaft and the front gearbox. The dealer said there was nothing more they could do. Now in 07 it appears they are no closer to a resolution. The deflection in the mid pto shaft aggravates me as much as the positive/negative torque pulsations as saselker posted.
As much as I like the tractor I will probably send it packing before it starts horking up parts and costing major $$$$ in repairs.
Luckily the farm show is this week. I will be looking at trading my machine.
I’m really starting to take a shine to one of those red 2415’s. The rep at the tractor show last year told me they will be available with a front blower and Curtis is making cabs for them.
As much as I like the tractor I will probably send it packing before it starts horking up parts and costing major $$$$ in repairs.
Luckily the farm show is this week. I will be looking at trading my machine.
I’m really starting to take a shine to one of those red 2415’s. The rep at the tractor show last year told me they will be available with a front blower and Curtis is making cabs for them.
turbo36
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2004
- Messages
- 1,528
- Location
- Michigan
- Tractor
- JD X739 AWS (3), 2016 Toolcat, JD 2038R
All this discussion on this motivated me to take a look at my 47" blower. I got it just over a year ago and noticed it made a lot more noise the my 455 with the same model blower. I made a call to my dealer and got the explanation "that because of the more severe angle on the 2305 the blower will make more noise" so I figured a set of ear plugs would solve the problem. Well after a year of this the thing was driving me nuts so I pulled the blower off to take a look at the chain and such to see if there was any obvious problems. One quick tug on the big sprocket gave me my answer; it was completely loose and just floating on the shaft, the set screws were loctited in place so they gave the impression the were tight against the shaft but they weren't. Upon further investigation I discovered the internal bore on the sprocket was so much larger then the shaft the sprocket would wobble .
The tractor went back to the dealer and they put on a new sprocket and key, alsothey greased and adjusted the chain ( apparently they run quieter with a little slop). Now it is amazingly quiet!!! I wish I had forced the issue while it was under warranty.
I would advise everyone that has noise to check for play in the big sprocket.
The tractor went back to the dealer and they put on a new sprocket and key, alsothey greased and adjusted the chain ( apparently they run quieter with a little slop). Now it is amazingly quiet!!! I wish I had forced the issue while it was under warranty.
I would advise everyone that has noise to check for play in the big sprocket.
Ran the blower on my 2305 and it was as quite as my 2520/47" blower. Everything was aligned as recommended in another thead, greased really well and the machine was even quieter than I thought it was... wacky alignment requirement... but all is well
Labrat
Gold Member
At the end of winter I plan on having the mid driveshaft cut and a carrier bearing installed. If that doesn't work I may replace the drive chain with a gear belt.
Nothing is loose or lacking grease on my unit. you can tell by the gobs it leaves on the garage floor.
As I couldn't put a deal together at the farm show I will have to keep this tractor until they make a blower as wide as the 2320.
Nothing is loose or lacking grease on my unit. you can tell by the gobs it leaves on the garage floor.
As I couldn't put a deal together at the farm show I will have to keep this tractor until they make a blower as wide as the 2320.
Well the dealer and I went over the whole thing and cannot find anything out of whack. He put the blower on a 595 and it ran quite. On a 2035 same noise. The final determination is that the angle of the shafts is not the best design and that is when the noise is comming from and then it is magnified in the blower. I give up. If I can I will sell the blower to someone who wants to mount it on machine other than a 2305 or 2210. It ran perfect on the X series. I just can't stand the noise so I won't be using it again. There goes $$$$ down the drain.
stuarth
Gold Member
JD has a pretty good return policy if you do it fast enough.
