4in1 bucket failure

[dirt ditch]

I am curious if anyone with a 4in1 (clam shell) bucket on a compact tractor has had a failure similar to this.

The failure occurred while clearing trees. The broken ends of the pin has rust showing for 1/2 it's thickness meaning it had been slowly breaking for some time. This aftermarket bucket is made for a loader with a 37gpm hydraulic system and a 16,000 lb load weight. It has seen more debris / tree clean up use than most equipment here on tbn, but I presume it is a design flaw in the bucket as the same thing happened to the other side of it 3 years ago when it was only a few months old. So not to be accused of Manufacturer bashing on the forums by the higher-ups I cut the nameplate out of the pics.

 

[RickB]

Asking for "comparable" failures in the CUT world is pointless, IMHO. 37 gpm and 16K load ratings are a different class of machine that are not comparable in any way, even if the same manufacturer's products are considered.

 

[SuperCobra]

Are we not supposed to mention manufacturers when equipment fails? I think that would be one of the main uses/benefits of this place. Based on the last part of your comment, I went and searched for and found the guidelines:

Terms of Use - TractorByNet.com

Nowhere in there can I find anything related unless you stretch this:

"We retain, however, the right to modify or remove posted materials that we, in our sole discretion, consider infringing, offensive, abusive, defamatory, obscene, stale, or otherwise unacceptable."

I guess it could be "offensive or otherwise unacceptable" if you were the manufacturer. However, as a consumer, I would like to know what brand this is. Feel free to PM me if it is really against the rules to post it.

 

[dirt ditch]

I am sorry but I never insinuated a compact tractor was in the same class as this loader. I was just giving info about this bucket for reference only to it's failure. I know compact tractor loader 4in1 buckets are sized for the tractors they are made for but they are still built similar to this large bucket, function the same way and I am just curious if any have had a similar (or not) failure of the clam shell components.

 

[tractorworks]

I have yet to see anyone with a grapple doing tree removal not abusing it. Not always intentional but picking up a tree by nature is hard on equipment. Think of the weight that may be 10-20 or more feet (think big pry bar) from where the grapple has a hold on it, then add in the stress of going over rough terrain. You could probably hear the metalic clink each time it was cracking a little more. Nature of the beast.

 

[J_J]

What is the relief pressure on the valve that controls the 4 in 1.

I would beef up the pin locations when the repair is done.

Was the pin hole deformed, not round?

 

[wdchyd]

What is the relief pressure on the valve that controls the 4 in 1.

I would beef up the pin locations when the repair is done.

Was the pin hole deformed, not round?

Wow that hurts...

Most machines are only as good as their weakest point....you found it!

I agree with JJ about relief valve, or more like "work port relief valve".....it should have some type of cushion/counterbalance/work port PRV ect., because of extreme pressures from "Induced Load"...(i.e. tree falling)

definetly beef up all sides:thumbsup:

 

[dirt ditch]

wdchyd, I was fortunate not to have been operating it either time it failed.

J J, 3600 psi is the hyd system pressure.

Hydraulic pressure alone was not the cause of the failure. Closeing the clam shell on somthing places all the pressure on the bottom 2 pins. Add to that the pressure of pulling backwards with the loader on something that won't budge with the loader alone equals a lot of force. If you look at the damage, you will see the bottom pin broke in half. As the downward force placed on the cylinder was transfered to the broken pin half's it spread booth plates out shearing off the inside plate and almost did the same to the outside plate. It will be fixed by heating, bending, welding and a new pin just like the other side was.

So I guess my question is, has anyone broken the lower pins on a compact tractor 4in1 bucket.

 

[alchemysa]

I'm no engineer but that does look kinda lightweight for a bucket that big.

 

[Builder]

Maybe it's inferior or cheaper chinese steel. I have the same size 4/1 bucket on my New Holland hoe. So far so good. Been on the machine for 6,000 hours. I hope it doesn't happen to me.

I bent the lower 1/2 of the jaw on a Bobcat 4/1 bucket about 10 yrs ago while backdragging.

 

[schmism]

I can tell you why youll never see that failure mode on a CUT.

The failure of that pin was due to the operator opening the clamshell then driveing backward with the front half of the clamshell engaging the ground. Acting as sort of a scraper.

(see this vid at about 40 sec)
YouTube - How to Operate a Backhoe : How to Operate a 4-in-1 Backhoe Bucket

LIkely the failure occurred while trying to due some dozzer activity, trying to pull out some stump in the above fashion or some bolder etc as part of land clearing activity.

The reason why you will never see that failure type on a CUT is that CUTS weigh SOOOO much less they cant develop nearly the ground traction that that 26,000 lb wheel loader can. As a result you just cant generate enough force on that pin from pulling backward on the clam shell to shear the pin ears off like that.

 

[Kernopelli]

My first impression was the plate steel was too thin but it was obviously a pin failure that caused the damage. Those are some huge cylinders/working pressures and the pin and plate both appear a little too light for them but the pics tell the tale....the pin failed first. A solid pin and the plate may eventually become the weak point though...........

 

[KennyV]

Not really a big deal... Inconvenient and will cause you a little slow down, but new pin some heat weld it back up and get rolling. If you are working it something will eventually break. Thats why welding equipment is portable and affordable.

As to "Manufacturer bashing", having something break is not a reflection on the manufacturer... everything will fail and need repaired. I've broke my Cat equipment, and at the time they were the king of dependability. KennyV