4pt mount for Bradco 609 to MF 1455

[1stDeuce]

Well, it's done, so I thought I'd post a thread. I wanted a BH for my tractor, and wanted something fairly powerful, since we have a lot of clay where we're building. I ended up finding a Bradco 609 in Florida for a good price, and had it shipped to me for less than I'd seen anything semi-local. It's not perfect, but it's powerful, and it's all there.


Right away after getting the hydraulics plumbed in on my tractor and hooking them to the BH, I discovered that that cylinder fittings on both stabilizers had rotted off the tube they were welded to, and would spray hydraulic fluid out instead of extending the ram...


I opted to cut the tubes back and clean them, then use some crimp-on style fittings. Parker calls them Ferulok, but I think the ones I used this time were from another supplier. Same but different... Unfortunately, they only offered them in pipe, and the local shop didn't have a pipe to JIC adapter, so I had to go with pipe on one end of the new hoses instead of my preference to always use to JIC on both ends.


How to mount it?? I contacted Bradco, but they didn't offer a mount kit for my tractor. We thought the one for the previous gen might work, but it was going to be ~$1200 for the system... I surfed around on TBN and looked at some mount styles, and visited the Kubota and LS dealer to look at theirs. Came to the conclusion that a 4pt mount was indeed ideal. Bradco was nice enough to send the instructions for the mount they thought might work, and I used the illustrations of their setup as my inspiration to design my mount in CAD.


The tractor side is 5/8" plate, welded to 1/2" plate braces that bolt to the loader mount. The backhoe side is 3/8" plate, with 1/2" plate bolt tabs and 1/4" lower stiffeners and double shear tabs. 1.25" Cold Rolled round for the upper and lower pins, with the lowers being welded into the BH mount. The holes on the BH plates were just for show, and because the thing already weighs ~1750lbs...

I had a local place cut the BH and loader bolt plates, and both parts of the 4pt mount on their CNC plasma table. In hindsight, I should have asked for the tractor plates to be cut on the waterjet, as they would have been much cleaner, but were going to do it all on the waterjet for an extra $100, and I was being too cheap... I paid $440 for the plasma parts, and about $70 for the round and plate steel.


I first built the BH half of the mount, so I could use it to get the tractor plates to fit, and then for fixturing so I could weld the tractor side up... I got the tractor plates to fit the BH mount with some ambitious die grinder work...



I used the BH to position itself vertically, and backed the tractor around until it was all centered. Then I tack welded the 5/8" plates to the lower ROPS plates. Welded all that up off the tractor...


Then I bolted the welded parts back onto the tractor, and tacked the chassis stiffeners in place. I ended up using a bit of 2x3/16" square tube at the front to get it to fit a little better...



I fully welded every joint, since that will keep water from getting between the plates and causing rust, and stressing things further. It all bolted back up, and fit perfectly. Well, except that to get both upper pins in, you have to pin the right side, then relax the boom a little till the left side lines up... It's not off by more than 1/16", so it'll be OK.

 

[Shaneard]

Nice work, looks great!

 

[dfkrug]

Looks great, DEUCE.

What CAD software did you use, and did you just email the resulting .DXF file to the
shop with the CNC cutter?

Bradco makes stout hoes. What does the attachment side look like?

 

[1stDeuce]

I used it some this weekend, until the bucket cylinder got to leaking so badly I was afraid I'd run the tractor out of hydraulic fluid!! I ripped out three cedar stumps, and maxed out the hydraulics many times... The mount seems VERY sturdy, and couldn't detect it moving at all.

I have to cross a wet wash to get to our property, and it has semi-frozen ruts. I did have some trouble with the backhoe dragging, even though it's mounted as close to the tractor as practical. I may use the second set of holes on the BH, which would raise it about 4". It currently has about 12" of ground clearance, and an extra four should be all I need.

But first I need to fix the leaking cylinder. I ordered a seal kit, and a new boom lock to replace the one that's missing. I already cracked the packing nut loose, which was fairly easy, so it shouldn't be a big deal to put the seals in once they get here.

Pretty happy with this setup... I'll go take a few pictures of the tractor with BH mounted so y'all can see the finished product...

 

[1stDeuce]

Looks great, DEUCE.

What CAD software did you use, and did you just email the resulting .DXF file to the
shop with the CNC cutter?

I used Solidworks, and yes, I just sent the .dxf files to the shop. They were able to import them directly into their CNC software.

Bradco makes stout hoes. What does the attachment side look like?

No doubt, and the 609 is supposed to be a stouter version of the 509. (Dipper cyl is bigger, frame is supposed to be a bit heavier, not sure what else...) I think my tractor is a bit low on relief pressure too, so I may turn it up a bit, at least to 2250psi, which is what it's supposed to be. I may go as high as 2500, which is what the BH was designed for, but we'll see... I don't want to be blowing a bunch of old hydraulic hoses, though I probably will end up replacing many of them before long...

The "attachment side"??? Do you mean how my mount bolts to the hoe? There is an eight bolt pattern on each side, with two upper and two lower. This way I can move my mount from the top holes, where it is now, to the lower holes, and lift the BH about 4" IIRC. All Bradco BH's share this pattern, or at least all the larger ones do... (509/511, 609/611, 3509, 3609, etc...)

I was a bit concerned that it might be slow, but their literature says it was designed for a flow rate of 9-12GPM or so, and my tractor is rated at 11.5-ish. Seems to work fine at about 1500RPM. Perhaps as I get better, I'll want a bit more speed, and I can easily get it by running the tractor a bit faster.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Looks great, how did you plumb the hydraulics for the hoe, are you using the power beyond circuit or just plugging into a set of rear remotes? Also what size hose did you use between the tractor and hoe?

 

[1stDeuce]

This tractor is set up with the pump feeding the FEL valve. The Power Beyond port of the FEL valve then feeds the 3pt hitch lift. I replaced the hose going to the FEL valve with 1/2" hose (from the factory 3/8") and used the biggest fittings I could. I then ran 1/2" hose from the Power Beyond of the FEL valve to the back of the tractor and a 1/2" quick disconnect. Normally, that hose is coupled to a 3/8" hose the feeds the 3pt lift. When I put on the BH, I disconnect there, and the 1/2" hose feeds the BH through more 1/2" hose. The BH returns directly to tank through another 1/2" hose and quick connect. The 3pt lift is disabled when the BH is connected.

There seems to be minimal restriction this way, though the first fitting off the pump's distribution block is an SAE O-ring to JIC6 fitting, but the SAE portion is small, with only a 1/4" passage... Suppose I could drill it out and re-tap it to 3/8", but so far it seems to be OK.

Took a couple of shots this afternoon...





Here's the rear of the tractor. The hydraulic connections you see are for the FEL. The BH connections are on either side of the ROPS, laying on the axle housing currently. I just got a 2nd 2-way coupler, and ordered snap rings to mount them to the ROPS for easier hookup and disconnecting. I'm going to re-locate the FEL quick connects down below the right side of the platform eventually, but for now, they are working ok here.


It's pretty tight in there, but I probably could have shortened the mount by a couple of inches... Would have to scoot the seat back too though, as it just contacts the fuel tank now... I'm 6' tall, so the seat position is good, and I'm happy with the current geometry.

Here's my leaking cylinder... It dumps about a cup of oil ever time it's cycled, and if under pressure, it blows out around the packing nut, so both the packing seal and the piston seal are toast. Hopefully the cylinder isn't messed up inside...

 

[KubotainNH]

Great job, thanks for sharing.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Ok thanks, you did a great job, I have a older case skidsteer unit that was on my old kubota that I'm just about done attaching to my new kioti. The guy that converted it from the skid steer to the kubota set it up with its own tank and pto pump but it's slow due the the pto pump gpm so on my new setup I am just going to power it from the tractor hydraulics that's why I was asking. Once you get all the leaks fixed it should serve you well for a long time.

 

[dfkrug]

The "attachment side"??? Do you mean how my mount bolts to the hoe? There is an eight bolt pattern on
each side, with two upper and two lower. This way I can move my mount from the top holes, where it is
now, to the lower holes, and lift the BH about 4" IIRC. All Bradco BH's share this pattern, or at least all
the larger ones do... (509/511, 609/611, 3509, 3609, etc...)

I thought some of them had skidsteer attachment plates.

Anyway, I suspect your 11.5GPM flow spec includes your power steering flow, and your flow
available to implements is less than 10GPM. If your cyls are 3" OD, that is more than
adequate. If you really have a JIC -6 fitting in the IN/PBOUT plumbing, those should all be -8.

 

[1stDeuce]

No, it's listed in the owners manual, and on Tractordata.com as Pump: 11.4, Steering: 5.9, Total: 17.3
So I have that going for me.

Many of the Bradco BH's do end up with skid steer mounts, but they are ALL bolted on. Pull the bolts and you find the same bolt pattern behind all of the larger hoes. I'm not aware of any Bradco BH's with welded on mounting setups. Even the 3pt mount just bolts on. You buy the BH, then the mounts for whatever you want to mount it too, be that a tractor, skid steer, or even a truck according to some sites!

I just checked the hoses. All the 1/2" hoses are JIC-8. My bad. But the first SAE fitting out of the pump block is tiny... a -4 I think... it looks terribly small, but I can't put a bigger one in unless I redrill it and thread it larger. I may do that if I end up wanting the hoe to run faster... If it's 11.4GPM at 2500rpm, I should be getting about 7gpm at 1500rpm. If I end up wanting to run it at a higher rpm to get more speed out of the BH, I'll do something, as sending even 7GPM through a 1/4" ID fitting seems pretty restrictive.

And all of the cyls on the 609 are 3" to 3.5" ID. (I was thinking they were bigger because the OD is larger, but I bet the pistons are 1/4" or so smaller, if not more...)

 

[1stDeuce]

Slightly off topic, but it is my thread, so what the heck... Dfkurg's comment about fitting sizes got me thinking... When I run the engine faster than about 1300 RPM, and run the loader, you can tell it works the engine, even doing things like lowering or curling an empty bucket... I bet there's a bunch of undersize fittings in the hoses that feed the loader... I know the hoses are 3/8", and the fittings are -6 at the best. I may up the fittings to -8 where possible. And perhaps the hoses to 1/2", since they'll be quite a bit shorter... I bet the loader will work faster too if the flow isn't so restricted at higher rpm's...

 

[bindian]

.



No doubt, and the 609 is supposed to be a stouter version of the 509. (Dipper cyl is bigger, frame is supposed to be a bit heavier, not sure what else...)

I read once the 609 was made for skidsteers and the 509 for tractors. I have the 511 and it has longer boom and stick and slightly larger cylinders. It is a beast. Looking at your photos, it looks like your subframe sides are 1/2 inch. Mine are 3/4 inch thick. What happens when you pick up your tractor's rear end with the hoe and swing the hoe? Is there any feeling of flex?
hugs, Brandi

 

[1stDeuce]

The tractor side of the mount is 5/8". Nothing moves when I pick the tractor up, but if I hook a stump and pull hard, I can get the tiniest bit of movement at the upper mount. So far as I can tell, it's because the 1/2" x 4" stiffener plates that go up to the FEL mounts are deflecting just a little. If I end up breaking them, I'll go up to 3/4" when I remake it, and extend the 3/4" thick part a little farther forward. That should stiffen everything up quite nicely. But I really doubt I'll ever manage to break it...

 

[bindian]

The tractor side of the mount is 5/8". Nothing moves when I pick the tractor up, but if I hook a stump and pull hard, I can get the tiniest bit of movement at the upper mount. So far as I can tell, it's because the 1/2" x 4" stiffener plates that go up to the FEL mounts are deflecting just a little. If I end up breaking them, I'll go up to 3/4" when I remake it, and extend the 3/4" thick part a little farther forward. That should stiffen everything up quite nicely. But I really doubt I'll ever manage to break it...

Happy digging!
hugs, Brandi

 

[dfkrug]

No, it's listed in the owners manual, and on Tractordata.com as Pump: 11.4, Steering: 5.9, Total: 17.3
So I have that going for me.

Many of the Bradco BH's do end up with skid steer mounts, but they are ALL bolted on. Pull the bolts and you find the same bolt pattern behind all of the larger hoes. I'm not aware of any Bradco BH's with welded on mounting setups. Even the 3pt mount just bolts on. You buy the BH, then the mounts for whatever you want to mount it too, be that a tractor, skid steer, or even a truck according to some sites!

I just checked the hoses. All the 1/2" hoses are JIC-8. My bad. But the first SAE fitting out of the pump block is tiny... a -4 I think... it looks terribly small, but I can't put a bigger one in unless I redrill it and thread it larger. I may do that if I end up wanting the hoe to run faster... If it's 11.4GPM at 2500rpm, I should be getting about 7gpm at 1500rpm. If I end up wanting to run it at a higher rpm to get more speed out of the BH, I'll do something, as sending even 7GPM through a 1/4" ID fitting seems pretty restrictive.

And all of the cyls on the 609 are 3" to 3.5" ID. (I was thinking they were bigger because the OD is larger, but I bet the pistons are 1/4" or so smaller, if not more...)

That's a big pump.....definitely want 1/2" hoses and fittings for all the INs, OUTs, and TANKs connections. It is perfectly
fine to use 3/8" (-6) for your work ports where they are intermittant use, e.g. FEL curl and boom.

As for your cyls, I am sure they have at least 0.20" walls. Maybe even 1/4" thick walls. So a 3.5" OD cylinder
could have a piston that is "only" 3.25 OD. That is still plenty big for any hoe attachment on a CUT.

 

[Kernopelli]

I'm not sure if you have tackled the cylinder rebuild yet but if not, I wanted to give you a possible warning. I have a DigIT excavator that uses a Bradco backhoe that I eventually had to rebuild all the cylinders on. The glands on the 609 appear to be the same style as my model, which are recessed aluminum glands in a steel barrel cylinder. Years of corrosion made them impossible to remove. Two local hydraulic repair shops, weeks of penetrant soaking, several styles of gland nut wrenches and a homemade wrench cut from 1" steel with 3/8" pins would not remove them. I used a hand held drill and a chisel to remove enough material to get the first one out. On the rest of them I decided it was easier to chuck them into a 4 jaw chuck and cut them out on my son's lathe. Needless to say, I had to purchase new glands. I am the only reference to this issue I found online at the time, so maybe it was a fluke......I just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[1stDeuce]

Thanks for the warning Kernopelli. Fortunately for me, every packing nut I've wrenched so far has turned pretty freely. I had to tighten two of them, and the one on the cyl that needs rebuilt broke free easily. Pretty amazing considering this thing sat out in Florida for 15 years or so. I wonder if some of your issue was related to moving the BH in the winter, and getting it covered in road salt... ??

I did spend some time today replacing grease fittings, and got all but three pins to take grease. Probably the first grease it's seen in a decade...

 

[bindian]

I'm not sure if you have tackled the cylinder rebuild yet but if not, I wanted to give you a possible warning. I have a DigIT excavator that uses a Bradco backhoe that I eventually had to rebuild all the cylinders on. The glands on the 609 appear to be the same style as my model, which are recessed aluminum glands in a steel barrel cylinder. Years of corrosion made them impossible to remove. Two local hydraulic repair shops, weeks of penetrant soaking, several styles of gland nut wrenches and a homemade wrench cut from 1" steel with 3/8" pins would not remove them. I used a hand held drill and a chisel to remove enough material to get the first one out. On the rest of them I decided it was easier to chuck them into a 4 jaw chuck and cut them out on my son's lathe. Needless to say, I had to purchase new glands. I am the only reference to this issue I found online at the time, so maybe it was a fluke......I just thought it was worth mentioning.

I've rebuilt 3 cylinders on my 509 and nothing like that. I have used it regularly since new in 2007. Do you have water in your hyd. fluid?
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

What's going on? I can't edit and correct posts either. I wanted to edit post #19 and say mine has alum. but it was a shiny as new when I pulled my cylinders apart.
hugs, Brandi