50 hour service better late than never

[CJONE]

Just a quick question, what about the range gears in the trans? They are in trans/hyd fluid. CJ

 

[the old grind]

... heavy gear oil ... has extra additives for heavily loaded gearbox .... The front gearbox design is different than the rear which shares hydraulic/transmission fluid for lubrication...

Differentials and range gears that share fluids with HST are designed specifically to work with the lower viscosity and particular properties of 'hydro'. Recognize that automatic transmissions last a long time with thin (-er than gear oil) fluid that has a very low 'lubricity' ('film strength', .. 'surface tension') to allow their clutches to grab. btw: planetary gears meshing don't have quite the same kind of sliding contact as hypoids. (ring gear)

Of course YMMV according to mfr's specs, but front axles don't have the compromised conditions of HST/diff's commonly combined lubes ... and guess what's typically called for in 'gear' transmissions ... So, CJONE, it depends, but it's good that you asked.

 

[blucoondawg]

Hydro has to flow thru valves & cylinders at all temps. Gear oil has to spread & stick where it goes, and to provide EP lubrication. Does the manual really say to use either one, or is that kinda left out and up to owner interpretation? I'd use 'gear oil' in the front axle if not specified otherwise by Kioti since there isn't much high-flow or high-speed going on in a geared/driven axle at tractor speeds, even in winter's cold.

I wouldn't want just hydro in something with gears esp during warm weather & I'd bet few of us would want to drain/refill seasonally to get the best of both. Please educate me if I'm that far off base. :confused3:

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Uh oh, simul-post, but I agree 100% with fellow Northerner DeereMann.

Yes the manual really says you can use either one, also the tractor comes with hydraulic fluid in the front axle.

 

[murphy1244]

They used trans fluid in my front.

 

[seacap04]

This has been a question I have been pondering or a long time. Is there someone out there in -10 degree F weather that uses gear oil in the front axel? If you do I would love to here your experience and time doing so. All the posts here are great. You are all pondering the same as me and some with far more intelligence than I have. My front axel is by far the most abused part of my tractor. By past experience gear oil does not work in a hydraulic system at cold temps. Would love to hear from someone that has a lot of hours using hydro in the front axel at low temps. Canadian friends what do you use?

 

[CJONE]

Differentials and range gears that share fluids with HST are designed specifically to work with the lower viscosity and particular properties of 'hydro'. Recognize that automatic transmissions last a long time with thin (-er than gear oil) fluid that has a very low 'lubricity' ('film strength', .. 'surface tension') to allow their clutches to grab. btw: planetary gears meshing don't have quite the same kind of sliding contact as hypoids. (ring gear)

Of course YMMV according to mfr's specs, but front axles don't have the compromised conditions of HST/diff's commonly combined lubes ... and guess what's typically called for in 'gear' transmissions ... So, CJONE, it depends, but it's good that you asked.

I always want to learn, as long as it seems correct. Been turning wrenches for many years and we changed over many differentials to a light weight lube to save the bearings that were splash lube. In cold temps they would gall and fail with heavy lube. Now with Synthetics that has been considerably helped with low flow in extreme cold. Just a FYI my tractor was shipped from the factory with trans/hydraulic fluid in it so that is what got put back in. I did consider a good multi vis synthetic gear lube [I have it on the shelf] but I wanted to stick with what Kioti specs for warranty. CJ

 

[the old grind]

Boy do I need to catch up with the times and IMO it's me that's learning something here. My shop machines call for specific lubes in certain places. That I understand why reminds me that makers know what they're doing and suggests quality or precision typical of a top brand. I'm sure these guys have been tested with what they recommend.

I confess to not plowing much below 20^F. I should also temper my previous enthusiasm for a 75-90wt synthetic that surely wouldn't belong where hydro is spec'ed, esp on the nippy side of weather. Thank YOU guys for the education.

btw & OT: what else I take away from this is that you boys just won't stop teasing me for not having at least one Kioti. :duh: Well my reason (excuse) to trade two tractors down to one this Summer was to not have to park a machine outside, and what I chose was more sentimental (size, familiar ergonomics) than ideal. Now I'm going for needing more than 800lb lift on the FEL, & a used DK45SE (or 50) sounds like me. I just hope I can learn what lubes are right. :mur: .. the old goof

 

[CJONE]

Boy do I need to catch up with the times and IMO it's me that's learning something here. My shop machines call for specific lubes in certain places. That I understand why reminds me that makers know what they're doing and suggests quality or precision typical of a top brand. I'm sure these guys have been tested with what they recommend.

I confess to not plowing much below 20^F. I should also temper my previous enthusiasm for a 75-90wt synthetic that surely wouldn't belong where hydro is spec'ed, esp on the nippy side of weather. Thank YOU guys for the education.

btw & OT: what else I take away from this is that you boys just won't stop teasing me for not having at least one Kioti. :duh: Well my reason (excuse) to trade two tractors down to one this Summer was to not have to park a machine outside, and what I chose was more sentimental (size, familiar ergonomics) than ideal. Now I'm going for needing more than 800lb lift on the FEL, & a used DK45SE (or 50) sounds like me. I just hope I can learn what lubes are right. :mur: .. the old goof

I have a friend that always says any oil is better than no oil!! A lot of truth to that. I think we stress too much on brand/type than we should. I have yet to see a lube related failure unless the lube is not getting to a part, I/E too thick to flow in a splash lube application. Or in the case of overhead cam engines too thick of a oil, taking too long to get to the cam journals and seizing in a aluminum head. Or in the case of dirt/water in the oil with hydrostats that I work with all the time. With these stats the manufacturers recommend everything from Dextron II to AW46 and everything in between. You would think the thin trans fluid would not have enough friction protection at 6000PSI in a hydrostat but it works fine and is a Denison Spec. Anyway have fun. CJ

OH and on edit a 75wt gear oil is in the range of a 10-15wt crank case oil so a 75wt synthetic will flow quite good in cold temps. I have a really good chart that I could fax to someone as a comparison, I know it helped me.

 

[DeereMann]

IMHO, I think it's a bit simplistic to say any oil is better than no oil. Without any oil, a system can not function at all.

What we focus on is the best maintenance parts & practises for our expensive equipement to maximize performance & longevity. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation to have when one's personal money & productivity is at stake.

 

[CJONE]

IMHO, I think it's a bit simplistic to say any oil is better than no oil. Without any oil, a system can not function at all.

What we focus on is the best maintenance parts & practises for our expensive equipement to maximize performance & longevity. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation to have when one's personal money & productivity is at stake.

It may be simplistic, but a gear train will function with out oil. Lets see 2010 1/2 ton GM rear end, about 2,000 miles before it was too noisy to drive [good friend]. 13 speed Fuller about 80 miles before it would not go into high range.[customer] I have a few more oopses but you get the meaning!! I do agree with you about the best but if a 4 dollar a quart oil vs a 10 dollar a quart gives the same longevity why go with the $10. I guess it is getting the best value for your dollar. A good example is synthetic oil, most people do not need it but it makes them feel better so they spend the extra $$ I use it when I need to but for the majority of the time, no. CJ