5105 or 4700

[kamarch]

Local dealer wants to sell me a 5105 4WD, along with adding a 521 loader and a rear 72" box blade. This machine has a 3 cylinder engine, with 2.9L. I really wanted a 4700, but he doesn't have any on the lot, and really wants to sell me a 5105. I think I could save about $4000 by going with the 5105.

This dealer also has a lot of 4600's, and he is going to pitch one of these, too. I like the 4600, but wanted to keep the PTP hp above 40. All comments are welcome

 

[dmccarty]

Kamarch,

I went through the same decision but ended up with the 4700. I was at the dealer last weekend and he had loads of 4600s but no 4700s. The salesman said they got in one more 4700 after they sold me mine and that was it.

We just had a conversation in the last month or so about the 4700 vs the 5105/5205 tractors. Check the specs on the FELs. I think the 470 was slighly better than the 521.. There may have been a misprint in the brochures but that is what I remember. The thread we had mentioned this. If you want to use a backhoe the backhoe for the 5n05s was around 11,000 dollars vs 7,000 for the JD48 that fits on the larger 4000s. The backhoe is what moved me to the 4700.

Also check the operator station. I was looking at the tractor's last weekend and it seemed that the 4700 had more room and was not as tight as the 5n05s. But that may be a bias from having a 4700.

The two things I really liked about the 5n05s was the HP, weight, and low engine RPM at PTO speed.

The backhoe AND the price difference between the 4700 and 5n05 made the 4700 the choice for me. If I did not need a backhoe and the dealer had given me a better price on the 5n05 I might be using a larger tractor! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty

 

[kamarch]

Dan,

Thanks for the help! First, were you looking at 4WD's on the 4700 and 5105? two, the dealer wants to sell a 5105 2wd for $15,000 and 4wd for $18,200. The remaining: fel, bucket hydraulics, and top link and additional left or right cylinder is still to be determined. It sound like a good price! I guess Deere thought they would be selling 4600's at a 8 to 1 ratio. He does have a 4700 4wd, with HSL. I just haven't convinced myself that it is worth the additional loss of available horsepower and cost.

Unfortunately, after mentioning some good qualities about the JD, he started to knock Kubota and NH /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Cheers!

 

[dmccarty]

First of all I think 4wd is a must have in a tractor. There are times, especially when using the FEL, that 4wd makes a difference. We have been having LOTS of rain over the last couple of months. There is a ditch, that eventually I'll put a culvert in, that has a steep approach and exit. When its real wet I'll just start to get wheel spin in 2WD. I think it would be real hard to get the tractor stuck on my property in 2WD. BUT, having 4wd it makes it an even less likely event. Beside FEL work, some of the pulling I have done has been greatly helped with 4WD.

He is giving you a great deal on the 5105. I was qouted 21,000 for a 5105 MFWD amd 22,000 or there abouts for the 5205 MFWD. There was some rebates involved in the pricing so take it with a grain of salt and that might include some a third SCV and power beyond kit. I felt at the time the salesman was trying to edge me to the 4000 and out of the 5000s. If it had not been for the backhoe I would have leaned heavily towards the 5205.

The HST only costs you 1.5 HP on the 4700. I don't like HST since I want the tractor tranny to work as closely as possible as my truck manual tranny. There are several threads running around TBN of people getting off the tractor after a long day and reaching for the turn indicator to put the truck in foward gear or trying to get the accelerator peddle to act like the HST. I would rather reach for the turn signal than mess around with my muscle memory involving the accelerator peddle. But this is highly subjective.

I do enough loader work where I could see having an HST might be slight improvement over the PowerReverser. Even though I don't need to I ALWAYS clutch the tractor when changing from forward to reverse. I can't stop my left leg from doing the shift. Its just to ingrained! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

And so far I don't think I have been limited by the HP on the tractor. So I would not worry about 1.5 HP if you really want HST. I have had problems with traction but NOT HP.

I wanted at least 40 PTO HP since I want to run a generator set and possibly a chipper down the road. I also wanted a heavier tractor. The 4700 was the tractor for me but like I have said the 5n05s and even the 5210 was attracting my attention.... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

If you have to pick up any trees/brush I would seriously look into a 4n1 bucket. They are simply awesome and I can't believe how usefull it is...

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[BadgerPhil]

I haven not seen a 5105 or 5205 at my dealer, but would love to try one, as someone who is looking at JD4700.
Tell me more about the 4 way bucket: how much extra is it, is it worth is for occasional dirt work?
Thanks.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan,

You won't believe this...but, The 5x05 series now has the 48 backhoe mounting up to it and the "old" 10A backhoe is being replaced with the new "49" backhoe...

JD marketing has pushed the 4000 series compacts/loaders using the pivot pin ratings and the rest of their tractor lines using bucket edge ratings. Even JD dealers were confused over the advertising...

I've said it before... the 5X05 advantage series is a real sleeper, absolutely lots of tractor for the money. JD is now starting to advertise the JD5105 2WD - 40 PTO-HP Utility Tractor @ $14995...

{gotta get the kids to school... will resume later...}

 

[dmccarty]

BadgerPhil,

A 4 way FEL bucket is like anyother dirt handling bucket except the "front" of the bucket opens. The 4n1 does 4 things in 1 implement hince the name. With the "front" closed the 4n1 is just like any other FEL bucket in that it can scoop and load material. With the "front" opened the back of the bucket turns into a dozer blade. Number 2 in the 4. With the front opened and turned 90 degrees down, the front and back of the bucket acts like a scrapper. Operation 3. And what I use all the time, open the bucket, drive into brush or log, close the bucket and you just grapped a tree to move around. If you have a lot of brush often you might want to look into brush/grappels for the FEL since I think they will pick up brush faster/easier than a 4n1. But I have lots of logs/trees to move/cleanup so a 4n1 works fine.

I three of the 4n1 operations all the time, dozer, grab, and scoop. The scraping I think I would just use the box blade or the dozer blade. I did see a guy running a bobcat at dusk one day with a 4n1 in "scrape" mode. He was ripping up grass an smoothing out an area at a VERY fast rate. The machine obviously had HST he was really moving it.

If you have things to grab or push a 4n1 is one heck of a tool.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

 

[dmccarty]

John,

Do you have anymore information on the new backhoe? I went to the JD web site but could not find anything.

Very curious. I'm sure it costs more money! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Later...
Dan

 

[Chillimau]

John,

Have you heard anything on the 5000 twenty series? I have checked a couple of dealers and nobody has any literature. One dealer said would probably be about 3months before any twenty series are produced.

About the backhoe, I'm curious, let us know. So far I think the Bradco 611 is the strongest hoe attachment ( dipperstick and bucket force) avail. in this size of tractor.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dan,

I'll try to scan the spec/page in tomorrow on the 49 Backhoe.
Briefly it fits the 5000 Twenty series, 9'-7" digging depth,3,175 lb. dipperstick digging force, 4,575 lb. bucket digging force... Possibly a modified 10A?

I've seen a number of your posts and always felt the 5205 should have been your "baby". Not to take anything away from your great 4700, but with your acreage, stumps, rocks etc. etc... When I saw the 48 matching up to the 5n05 series, I immediately thought of you.