5600 with drive problems

[rock3322]

Hi Guys,
Well I guess I have the same problem many of you have had with your Toolcats..... It started out by not moving then it would then jumped then not move then would.. I changed the filters, the main hydro filter had no metal fragments but the case drain filter by the battery did they where metalic not brass or aluminum. Rolando had a simular problem and Bobcat paid the bill, how did the rest of you come out with the probem and what did they do what was the fix and what did they pay?

Thanks

 

[goatman 1]

Rock
When you try either forward or reverse, does it bog the engine or does nothing happen? If nothing happens, it coud be as simple as a computer reset, by the dealer, which is not too bad. If it bogs, the problem may be with the wheel speed sensors. Ive had that happen sometimes and not had a code show up. If it wont move, try unpluging the wheel speed sensors whith the engine running and re plug them. That will make a code, but the computer may ignore the code and allow you to run again. My b has done this several times. The connector for the front is under the lift cylinder just behind the guard plate. It is easy to get a if you raise the lift all the way up.
The rear sensor is in front or the radiator. The 4 wire connectors are the ones going to the wheel speed sensors. The other connectors go to the wheel position sensors. Hope this helps.
If there is a real bobcat technician who knows what is really going on, maybe we could all get help!

 

[timm9]

I'm very curious if you are seeing an error code. I experienced a drive issue in September (see posting Error Code 50-56) which seemed to have resolved itself after going through a lot of dismantling and reassembling. Now the issue is back with a twist. The most recent occurrence did not show an error code at first. Error Code did show up after multiple events. Now this particular TC will come to an immediate stop (engine keeps running) and refuses to allow the transmission to engage. If the unit is shut down and restarted it will move again until the next event. It appears that once the engine reaches normal operating temps, the problem goes away. By normal temp I'm not referring to the warm up period (grey area on gauge), but after the temp enters the green on the gauge, but before it reaches about half way into the green. My Driver counted 8 different events of the transmission shutting down in less than 2 miles.

The dealer has been on the phone to the engineers and they are only coming up with a Communications error between the drive controller and the console controller. They believe it is a wiring problem but when testing the wires indicated by the engineers, the meter says the wires are good. It has been suggested that I replace the drive controller which I suspect is $1,000.00 but no one can tell me that this will solve the problem. Any experiences, suggestions, would be greatly appreciated as I have a large storm comming!

Tim

 

[dsb5610]

Tim,

Is the cruise control, work mode, aux pump, etc. engaged when this happens?

I wonder if the computer stores diagnostic history that could be retrieved to determine if communication with a particular sensor is lost when the event occurs. Similar to what some car and truck engines do.

dsb

 

[timm9]

dsb,

The first series of "events" the TC did not even have a bucket on it. I had just finished preping for winter and was positioning it hook up a bucket.

The most recent series of events the TC had a bucket on it and was not in work mode, no aux pump, etc. My driver was actually roading it to my shop for grease and a fluid check before the next storm.

As for a CPU diagnostics, the dealer has not indicated anything can be done other than check for a loose ground, and/or replace both the drive and colsole CPU's which total $1,300.00 plus tax and shipping.

Tim

 

[y3ll0w]

It has been suggested that I replace the drive controller which I suspect is $1,000.00 but no one can tell me that this will solve the problem.

Tim

That is very frusterating.

 

[radman1]

Hi Guys,
Well I guess I have the same problem many of you have had with your Toolcats..... It started out by not moving then it would then jumped then not move then would.. I changed the filters, the main hydro filter had no metal fragments but the case drain filter by the battery did they where metalic not brass or aluminum. Rolando had a simular problem and Bobcat paid the bill, how did the rest of you come out with the probem and what did they do what was the fix and what did they pay?

Thanks

What is the year and series of your toolcat? The drive motor issue was primarily limited to certain year and model.

 

[rock3322]

I might agree with some of you with the computer or wiring but I have metal in the case drain filter and some are large pieces.

 

[rock3322]

Oh by the way its a late A or early B

 

[radman1]

I thought the pump failure was on the early C series? Yours may be a different issue.

 

[theoshin]

agree. bad batch of drive motors on c's. not sure if it ever happened(s) on older models.

 

[dsb5610]

Oh by the way its a late A or early B

rock,

If the pivot arms for the curl function are white it is an 'A' model. If they are black it is a 'B' model. The 'A' and 'B' have a box style lift boom that you cannot see through the middle . The newer models have booms that you can see through the middle.

I agree metal filings in the filter is unrelated to what Timm is experiencing. Sounds like you have a pump problem. Do the lift/curl functions work when the unit will not move?

dsb

 

[timm9]

Follow up:

This particular TC is an early 2005 B series. I spent quite a few hours last night trying to check and find (suggested by dealer) possible bad grounds. I also spoke with my Brother in Law who is in charge of trouble shooting and repairs at a large steel plant with lots of hydraulic equipment. He asked quite a few questions, one of which may be an indication that this is not a CPU issue. He asked if the boom/bucket still operated after the error code came up and the transmission would not engage. The answer is yes, which leads him to believe that this may be a sticking control valve. He suggested that if I could get the unit to fail again, try and run the boom to warm up the fluid as see if the transmission will engage again without shutting down and clearing the error code. I tried repeatedly this morning to get the error code to come up with no luck. One thing I do know for sure. If you allow the unit to reach normal operating temp, it will run without any issue. I'm hoping and praying that this will continue as the National Weather Service has issued a Blizzard Warning for our area.

Tim

 

[timm9]

Another follow up;

I spent most of the morning trying to get the TC to fail so we could test the theory about the hydro fluid temps. Could not get it to fail...

I finally gave up and the driver of that unit picked it up, completely warmed it up, and "it" promptly failed about 3 miles from the shop. I guess our previous deductions didn't hold much water....

I'm thinking that if I can get through the next series of storms, I'll pull the CPU's out of another unit and swap them and see if the problem follows the CPU's. If it does not, then I know it not the CPU's.

I'm about desperate enought to just pay the $1,300 (plus Tax & shipping) for the drive & console CPU's and hope and pray that solves the problem. If that does not resolve the issue I guess I could just keep them as reserve parts...?

Tim

 

[rock3322]

My lift, steering and dump will work when there is no forward or reverse. I would find it hard to believe that that it is a hydro pump instead of motor because my hydro filter was not contaminated but the case drain was and I think the case drain just comes from the motors not the pump..

 

[y3ll0w]

I would find it hard to believe that that it is a hydro pump instead of motor because my hydro filter was not contaminated but the case drain was and I think the case drain just comes from the motors not the pump..

The pump is what moves the fluid thru the motors.

 

[Rip]

Tim,

Was real concerned about your recurring drive problems with that BIG storm(s) headed your way.

Sure hope things worked out OK for you !

Rip

 

[timm9]

Rip,

Thanks for the concern! We have made it through the last series of storms with a few "occurances" of the drive system shutting down.

Still working with the dealer to find a solution. In two more days we are supposed to get a break in the weather and I going to try the CPU swap and see what happens. While I'm extremely far from knowledgable about the inner workings of the TC, I still think this is something other than a CPU issue. I think it's going to be a "ghost" in one of the sensors that is giving a false code to the CPU.

Sooner or later we will find the answer and when we do I will be sure to share!

Thanks again!

 

[Rip]

Tim, Sorry to hear your problems are on-going, but real glad it did not shut you down when you needed everything going for you.

I would tend to agree with you regarding a sensor. I get periodic "Service 4WD" error messages on my '05 Chevy 1500HD with AutoTrac that I attribute to an intermittant condition from a wheel sensor. Have not had it looked at yet, but has not shut the truck down either.

In any event, glad you did not get put out of commission. Hope the TCs and blowers held their own otherwise with all that Sierra Cement!

Rip

 

[rock3322]

Just thought I would give you all an update.... My front drive motor is bad the floating ring inside that holds the ends of the pistons exploded part of the rotating assembly. I contacted Comer trying to buy the swash plate and rotating assembly but could not wait, Bobcat didn't have them either if they did the assembly was around $650, plate $220 and seal kit $15 I got a complete motor from Bobcat for $1200. I would imagine that I will get the repair parts from Comer when they get back with me so I have a spare motor, and I would hope it would be alot more reasonable..