580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses?

   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #1  

notslow

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
25
Tractor
Massey Ferguson 50E
Hi Guys,
My Case 580C backhoe/loader, just blew a swing seal. It's finally time to start replacing seals and hoses before anything else goes.

Is there a recommended seal brand or place to buy that's a good deal? I see the seal kits on Amazon, but not sure about the quality or price.

Does anyone sell pre-made hoses for these old units or am I better off having them made local?

I'm going to replace any hydraulic seals that are leaking or weeping and any hoses that are cracking or showing braid. 8 seals and 8-10 hoses.

Should be interesting. I've never done hydraulic seals, but I watched a video. Looks pretty much like changing motorcycle fork seals, besides every part being 20x heavier.
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #2  
Not sure about the seals but you are likely better off getting the hoses made by a local hydraulics shop. Hopefully someone else here can chime in regarding the seals.
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #3  
I have a 580B, been a while but I got my seal kits from equipment parts store; here's their 580C seal page


Prices are a LOT higher than when I bought mine (surprise...)

There's also Broken Tractor -


In EITHER case (pun NOT intended, but I'll take it :=) be REALLY sure which cylinders YOUR machine has, split piston or 1 piece piston - may need to disassemble BEFORE you buy - The B and C could have EITHER type.

Hoses - I agree on getting them made locally - ONE MORE CAVEAT; on the hoe boom, the 580B had separate short pins and bushings (one set per side) coupling it to the swing tower; not sure about the C model, it may ALREADY have a 1 piece LONG pin thru both sides of the boom - if your boom pins are the short ones, you can't get those any more - I found this out the HARD WAY, had to buy a LONG pin/bushing kit, STILL haven't changed that out because my hoses aren't LONG ENOUGH to reach AROUND that long pin (instead of BETWEEN the two short, worn out ones)

Bottom line: check this out on your C before you buy hoses...

Also, you might find a cheaper price but if you're gonna re-seal the entire hoe (12 cylinders total on the C) this tool will probably save you an hour or two PER CYLINDER when installing the internal rod seals -


I did about half the seals on my 580B BEFORE I bought the tool, the "before" seals took at least an hour more than the 2 I've done SINCE.

HTH... Steve
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #4  
Here's a link to all the manuals for the machine. https://www.minnpar.com/manuals5.as...) 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580C

There should be a number on the end of the cylinder, and you can match that with the parts manual and determine if you have 1-piece or 2-piece.

If you get the right person at yesterday's tractor, they can cross the numbers and source them. Broken tractor is another good place. Or you can search the part number for the seal kit and find them. I just got one for mine off eBay for $29.

Good luck. I just got a 580c myself and I'm busy patching up all the leaking hoses and cylinders. That parts manual is your friend. Whatever you do, don't get parts from the dealer... $$$$
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #5  
More good info jshwhite, thanks -

notslow, one more safety related suggestion - the hoe section of these machines weighs about 2 tons, here's what I did to avoid any of the wrong kind of surprises - the chain from bucket to swing tower was attached, then machine shut down, then every hyd lever wiggled till NOTHING moved, BEFORE anything was disconnected.

The ratchet binders/extra chain stuff was just to give easy control of the dipper cylinder (it ain't light) while R&R the hoses. That was done just over 12 years ago when I was "only" 65, next time will probably take TWICE as long :rolleyes: ... Steve
 

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   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Wow guys, some great advice here. I'm going to order those seal tools. Getting those seals in looked like a hassle. I'm going out to check the boom pin. I think it is the double style. That will save me buying the wrong hose length.

So glad I came here before ordering seals. Would have never thought about the being different styles for the same model and year. I'll try to find the info on the cylinders. Does this go for the loader end too?
I need to change the big cylinder seals on the loader the stabilizer seals and the steering seals.

Golden advice about chaining everything in place when working on the backhoe.

Thankfully, the rest of the backhoe seals are still good. I'm not looking forward to messing with those big cylinders. The swing isn't too stressful since I can just set the bucket down to take tension off and keep it from moving. I'd be way more nervous with taking that boom cylinder loose or pulling any pins holding the boom. May even chicken out and hire a professional for those.
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #7  
If you're going to replace any hoses, I would suggest that as you take them off, number the hose and number the location where it goes. Then take them to your local hydraulic supply. They should be able to make up anything you need. Also, if the hoses are original, they should have a Case part number stamped on them in the crimp area of the fitting.
 
   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #8  
A few more tips -

Azbinder's suggestion on marking is really good, and gets better the more hoses you do at once - I found that several of mine were too "un-pristine" to write directly on with ANYTHING I had, so my local office supply had these


I'm kida **** about messing up stuff so I put one on EACH END of each hose, figured it'd be less likely for BOTH to get ripped off by a careless employee.

If you don't already have an actual SERVICE manual, you should - the actual paper ones were close to $200 when I bought mine, but BEWARE of manuals on DVD - if you go too cheap (like under about $40) there's a very real chance the "manual" you get will be a PDF like the OVER $40 ones, but all you'll get is a PDF with PICTURES of each page - usually kinda blurry too. The more expensive ones will BRAG about being "searchable" - this only happens if the maker took the time to get higher quality pictures of pages, THEN run those PICTURES thru an OCR program (stands for Optical Character Recognition) - that process turns all the words on a picture into actual ASCII code, which your computer can read as REAL WORDS - so if you search that manual for "filter", or "bearing", etc, the search will show you EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of the word. That ability can be HUGE when you can't find something from just the original index page. Again, if the manual you're looking at HAS that capability, it'll be more than the cheapest versions and they WILL BRAG about it.

Torque - service manual torques for the cylinder piston bolts on the hoe are VERY important - not that they have to be EXACT, but they should be CLOSE - Picture just how much fun it'd be if the piston came off the INSIDE end of the rod (odds are VERY good the piston would end up at the INNER end of the cylinder, with NOTHING left to pull it out...

Sooo, factory torque specs - Loader cylinder Piston bolts (all 4) 200-220 ft lbs

Backhoe cylinder piston bolts

Bucket cylinder piston bolt - 475-525 ft lbs

Dipper cylinder piston bolt - 1000-1200 ft lbs (NOT a misprint)
I haven't done this one yet, I figure my 1" impact will get it loose (rod end mounted in 100# vise bolted to my 1000# weld table) - I intend to use my 3' 3/4 drive flex handle with a 6' pipe and my butt bouncing on the end of the pipe...

Boom cylinder piston bolt - 475-525 ft lbs (there are 2 cylinders so not as beefy as the dipper)

ALL of the gland nuts on loader AND hoe are 100-200 ft lbs

If you haven't already found 'em, there are usually a single small metal screw on each gland nut where it contacts the cylinder barrel - it's much easier if these get removed BEFORE inscrewing the gland (DAMHIKT)

New seals on piston going back in - not that hard, Case was kind enough to flare the gland end of the cylinders - still, if you have a piston ring compresser it'll help get things started, maybe with a single layer of aluminum roll flashing around the seals - new seals don't like to cooperate much, depending on in machine or out I reach for a "BADBH" (BigAzzDeadBlowHammer) or, if there's a convenient anchor point sometimes a comealong. I ALWAYS squirt a fair amount of hydraulic fluid on the new seals.

One thing NOT to do - use compressed air to move a cylinder - because air is compressible and fluid is NOT, when it finally moves you should be in a DIFFERENT ROOM...

I probably missed a few dozen things I'd (hopefully) remember if I was doing the job, but maybe this'll jog OTHER members' memories... Steve

Oh, I tried to build 3 different DIY gland nut tools, finally gave up (broke 'em all) and bought this


There are copies that're cheaper, but there's a LOT of stress on those pins on most of the case cylinders I've done...
 
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   / 580C blew a seal. What's the best place to get seals and hoses? #9  
Good advice from everyone. That link I sent includes a full service manual PDF also - completely free.

Notslow, if you clean the end of the cylinder on the gland end you should see a number. All the hoe cylinders on mine are that way, and I'm assuming that's the case on all the cylinders. My understanding is that if the number starts with G10, it's one-piece. But you can match it in the parts manual also. There should be a parts diagram for each cylinder on the machine, and will tell you the cylinder number, which you can then match a seal kit number to.

Just my .02, if you have a good hydraulic shop near you, just pull the cylinder and give it to them with the seal kit. To me, it's worth paying a bit for them to do it, but then again, there's a good shop near me.

Regarding the hoses, the parts manual will also tell you the exact length. If you have a bunch of them to do, just pull one off for reference and give the shop the lengths and fitting specs, male/female, etc.

No need to chicken out on the boom cylinders. I just pulled mine today. Blocked everything up and secured it, took the pressure off, and they slide right out easy. A hoist makes it nice if you have one.
 
 
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