'69 Convertible

[BillyP]

Now I never drove a Roadrunner other than the one we owned. But I was working every day driving a police sedan and my Roadrunner certainly handled as well, if not better, than the Ford police sedans that had the heavy duty police package. Maybe my Roadrunner was unusual, but I wouldn't have thought so. And my wife still says the Roadrunner was her favorite of all the cars we've owned over the years.

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Bird, I think it was more to do with high speed/performance road handling. I know this show was geared in that direction.

 

[dbdartman]

I need a little advice from anyone familiar with antique cars. I have a 1968 Plymouth Sport Satellite convertible. I am the original owner & I used it daily till August 1993 when we moved to the country. Since that time it has been garage kept, although prior to that is was not. The engine is a 318 rebuilt installed by SW Motor Exchange around 1990. Got it painted about then too. I've attached a photo. The insides needs a lot of help/restoration. The car looks pretty good in the photo, but it's not perfect by any means. There are a couple or two+ rust bubbles.

I'm not actively trying to sell it, but I've about decided that I don't have the $$ to have it restored & I sure don't have the skill, either. To tell the truth, I'd like to recover the floor space it takes up in my shop. While buying my wife a car earlier in the week, I happened to mention the convertible & the general mgr. snapped to attention. He seemed really interested, was I interested in selling. I said yes, I might. Today I got a call from one of his employees from the service department - - he wants to come take a look.

How much to ask? I paid $3500 back in July, '68. Is it worth that much now? I know inflation has messed with the dollars quite a bit, but getting the same absolute money for it today that I paid then has a nice ring.

Any thoughts?

First, go to Moparts on the Web - Main Index & register there, it's the largest Mopar web board there is, & ask what it's worth in the "general" forum. I'm guessing you'll receive replies stating that it's worth anywhere from $10-$15,000. Having read NONE of the responses so far (at least 25 by now) I'll say that you're GIVING that car away for $3500. It's worth a MINIMUM of TWICE that amount, if not more, as long as it's all there & there are no GAPING holes in the floors & quarter panels! Even though it's not a Roadrunner ('verts of those start at $20K for an incomplete project needing floors, trunk floor, fenders, quarters & complete interiors), even though it's not a big block, it's STILL a drop-top B-body, with a complete interior & needing no major panels replaced.

I'll bet if you list it on Ebay, include plenty of pics & an honest description of the car, you'll be amazed at what it goes for. If you do list it there, I'll guarantee it'll sell, & for much MUCH more than $3500 (for that much, I'll borrow some $$$, rent a trailer, pick it up, & sell it here in NJ for $10K & it wouldn't surprise me at all if I saw it for sale a week later for more $$$).

~EDIT#1~

Just read a few responses. It's a 318 car. Numbers matching engine or not, it really doesn't make much difference. They made MILLIONS of 318 cars & trucks. That car would be worth MORE with a non-correct 383 or 440 in it than it would with the #'s 318 every day of the week! Chances are, that's what will end up between the fenders anyway (I'd do it in a heart beat).

~EDIT #2~

The 440 was not offered in the Roadrunner until mid-year 1969 (called 69½ cars or known by their sales code as "A-12" cars) with the 6bbl induction (6-pak) & a black fiberglass "lift-off" hood. Before that, the 335HP 383 was the standard engine, the 425HP 426 8-bbl Hemi the only other engine option. You gotta remember, the Hemi option added around $1000 to the bottom line. That's a 25% increase in the cost! Only "rich kids" could afford one. Add to that the fact that they were "finniky" & required constant maintainance in order to run correctly, & it's no wonder they are rare. They were rare back in the day! A mildly modified 383 could run with a 426 & a sharply tuned stock 440/6 would hang with a well tuned stock 426 & walk an un-tuned one.

Decent "driver quality" Roadrunners (68-69) with non-matching #'s (could be 383, could be 440 4bbl) are trading these days for $18-$25+K, convertibles, being as rare as they are, are going for near double ($30-$50K).

As for those cars being unstable, well, considering the tires they were on compared to today's redials, it's no wonder one would get that impression. Personally, I've owned a few 66 & 67 B-bodies (they were Chargers) & even in stock "very-well-used" condition, with radial tires they handled & drove like any new car.

Timber, have you personally ever driven a car of that era with bias belted tires? They're ALLEVIL! Doesn't matter who made it.

If you think it's hard to make one of those cars handle really well, I can take anyone for a ride in any of the 3 Mopars my brother & I have here. His 68 Barracuda will make anyone's vocabulary "colorful" after driving into the first turn at double what you'd expect to be "fast," & have it just turn; no drama, no excitement, no tire screaming body leaning "I'M GONNA' DIE!!!!!" instability, just TURN. My Dart is the same thing. What REALLY gets your attention is when my brother does it in his 69 Coronet wagon (packing an honest 550HP & 590 ft/lb at the crank), all 4500 lbs of it! All have stock suspensions with polyurethane bushings, heavier leaf springs & torsion bars, small aftermarket sway bars, good (Koni) shocks, & most of all good radial tires. BTW, all have later stock disc brakes, my Dart having the smallest @ 10.875" disc/10" drum, the other 2 have 11.75" disc/11" drum, all have carbon-metallic frictions.

Oh, I think it was the '72 Polara 440 police car that held the interceptor top speed record, until last year, at something like 142 or 147MPH.

 

[RobertN]

~EDIT #2~

The 440 was not offered in the Roadrunner until mid-year 1969 (called 69½ cars or known by their sales code as "A-12" cars) with the 6bbl induction (6-pak) & a black fiberglass "lift-off" hood. Before that, the 335HP 383 was the standard engine, the 425HP 426 8-bbl Hemi the only other engine option. You gotta remember, the Hemi option added around $1000 to the bottom line. That's a 25% increase in the cost! Only "rich kids" could afford one. Add to that the fact that they were "finniky" & required constant maintainance in order to run correctly, & it's no wonder they are rare. They were rare back in the day! A mildly modified 383 could run with a 426 & a sharply tuned stock 440/6 would hang with a well tuned stock 426 & walk an un-tuned one.

That's right, it would add about 1/4 the cost. The Roadrunners were a basic budget car. The Hemi was a huge expense. I have read the same; the 44/6bbl was as fast as a street Hemi in stock tune.

Part of the Hemi sales too, were the NASCAR requirements for a certian number of cars with the race engine option(500?). Requirements were tougher on Mopars, because on the tracks the Hemi cars were running away from the competitors; Mopar had to make more in stock trim, and then on the track they had restrictions...

As for those cars being unstable, well, considering the tires they were on compared to today's redials, it's no wonder one would get that impression. Personally, I've owned a few 66 & 67 B-bodies (they were Chargers) & even in stock "very-well-used" condition, with radial tires they handled & drove like any new car.

Timber, have you personally ever driven a car of that era with bias belted tires? They're ALLEVIL! Doesn't matter who made it.

this is what I have heard from family members, and friends who raced. Tire technology was not that good, for all manufacturers. I have a friend who had a tri-power GTO; good luck stopping it, and good luck getting traction in a turn. My Uncles SS396 Chevelle was that way too; he got it new in '66, and kept it till the '90's. He said it was a different story in the 60's and early 70's getting that car to handle, compared to the better tires he had in the 80's and 90's.

 

[Superduper]

Tdog, don't know where the responses came from regarding $3500 being about right but mopars, especially ones that are in good shape, and double 'specially the convertibles as they are extremely rare means that if you took $3500 for it, you got robbed. Truth be told, I would come down and double that $3500 for it right now. But if truly you want to recover that garage space and need to get rid of the satellite, be patient and I think you should be able to get enough to park a brand spanking new CUT in it's place instead.

 

[billbill1]

Two of the fastest cars I remember from the 60's and early 70's? A 67 Nova with a 327, I believe was 375 hp and a 1970 Lime green cuda with a 340. For stock cars, these were fast. I knew the guys that owned these two cars and they were factory stock and untouchable.

 

[George2615]

I know we are a little off the original topic but I think he got his answer.

Most of the cars in the 60's (starting from 64 and up) were basically muscle cars designed to go straight line 1/4 mile racing. In my opinion the car design engineers were lacking in the handling department. On the road, most had a lot of body roll going into the corners and a lot were light in the rear for producing those long smoky burnouts.

The police intercepters that Bird talked about, most of the ones I saw were Plymouth Fury III's with the 440, had special cams, HD cooling systems, HD torqueflite, HD rear, HD suspension, dual exhaust with special mufflers, and 160MPH speedometers. The HD suspension helped minimize body roll in corners.

Owners of 60's muscle cars had to beef up the suspension, usually with aftermarket parts, springs, HD sway bars, HD shocks, swap out drum for disc brakes, and in some instances install frame tie connectors since a lot were of unibody construction which would twist the body under extreme acceleration. Those that didn't ended up off the road usually wrecked.

What amazes me are the smart few who bought these factory hot rods, drove them very little then stored them for 40 years only to take these low mileage beauties to the Barrett Jackson Auction and get 6 figure money for what cost them around 5K new. If only we could go back in time now.

 

[Phils]

When I got married in 1971 I had a stick-shift and was attempting to teach my new wife how to drive it. We weren't gonna stay married very long the way it was going.

So we needed an automatic. I'd forever wanted a Firebird convertible. Looked at car lots until we found one, a '69. Bought it.

Still have it (and the numbers all match). Still have the wife too (not commenting on her numbers).

Phil

 

[mjarrels]

Always wanted a 1970 GTO... A bunch of high school buddies are not around due to these cars and oak trees... I can't figure out how these kids could afford these cars in high school... powerfull in a straight line but could not make a turn!

mark

 

[Bird]

When I got married in 1971 I had a stick-shift and was attempting to teach my new wife how to drive it. We weren't gonna stay married very long the way it was going.

So we needed an automatic. I'd forever wanted a Firebird convertible. Looked at car lots until we found one, a '69. Bought it.

Still have it (and the numbers all match). Still have the wife too (not commenting on her numbers).

Phil

Phil, when we got married in 1965, I was driving a 1964 stick shift Dodge Dart, and my wife at 21 years of age had never driven an automobile at all. So it wasn't too long until I traded for a new 1966 Ford Fairlane 500 with automatic, power steering, and power brakes, and I sure DO NOT still have it because I have no doubt it was the worst lemon Ford ever built. After 2 years and 24k miles, I got it to running on at least 6 or 7 of the 8 cylinders one day and traded it for that new Roadrunner. But, like you, I do still have the wife. And she even has a drivers license.

 

[KentT]

This would be news to all the NASCAR Daytonas and Superbirds that ran Hemis.

Don't know the production numbers, but the Daytonas and Superbirds came standard with 440s, while the 426s were optional... and as mentioned were VERY expensive options. I almost bought a Daytona but ordered a new Camaro Z-28 instead...

The 426 Hemi was run in NASCAR -- and outlawed at least twice. The second time was the end, while the 440 carried them on. The 440 6-pack was their required "minimum 500 production run" to make them eligible for NASCAR...

426s ruled the dragstrip for the next 25 years or more in the big-block class....