7.3L Powerstroke or 5.9L Cummins with over 200k miles -- still lots of life, or not?

[jas67]

I'm looking to buy a truck to tow a 24 to 28 camper (not yet purchased) up to 8000 lbs. I will also use this to tow other loads in the 2000-5000 lb range, such as my B7610, and 2400 lb. pallets of wood pellets.

I really like the idea of a turbo diesel, esp. for the longer camping trips. I know that the price difference between most of the diesel trucks, and a gas-powered one is high enough that I won't see payback very soon at todays fuel prices, but I'm looking to keep whatever truck I get for a long time, and prices WILL go up.

I'm looking primarily at F250 and F350's with the 7.3L Powerstroke (I don't want to the problems of the early 6.0L engine, and any newer than that will be too much money). I also like the 5.9L Cummins, but am not as sure about the rest of the truck they go in (sorry, Dodge fans, not trying to start a "my truck's better than your truck thread).

$12k is about the max I want to spend, as this will not be a daily driver, and will only see 3k-5k miles per year. The CFO (SWMBO) would be happier if I spent less, but it can't be "ugly", or she won't ride in it.

There seem to be a good supply of of these trucks in the $10k-$15k, with miles ranging from low 100k to 300k.

I have found some decent looking ones in the low 200k mile range for as little as $6k for an otherwise decent looking truck. Should I be comfortable buying a 200k truck? I know that these routinely go past 300k miles, but I don't want to be constantly repairing it either. Or, would I be better off in the long run spending $10-12k on a 100-120k example (they're out there).

4WD isn't completely necessary, but would be nice. It has to at least be an extended cab, but a short-bed crew cab would be awesome, as we have a daughter that will ride in the back, and leg room will be a problem in the future, as my wife comes from a long line of tall people.

I'm looking for info on what problems to look for, real-life experiences with these trucks. I'm near Hershey PA, so if anyone has a nice one for sale, or knows of one in my price range, let me know.

My wife doesn't like the looks of the pre'99 Ford super duty (which is fine, as I want the intercooler, which starts in '99, and also love the extendable mirrors), same goes for the pre-96 (or what every year the changed to the late-90's style) RAMs.

Thanks,
Jay

 

[Builder]

Engine-wise, if a high mileage truck is going to be purchased a 5.9L will live a longer average life than a 7.3L. I believe the 5.9L has a longer B life than a 7.3L. The 5.9L is the stoutest engine ever installed in a light duty truck. Afterall, it's used as a farm tractor/combine, scraper engine. Most heavy duty app a 7.3L will see is in a school bus.

Next would be the remainder of the truck. The Ford might have some advantages, but if you're buying a 100K + mile truck, my guess is most all wear items have been replaced or upgraded. I'd doubt you'll find one with the original automatic, ball joints, steering parts, alternator, starter, etc.

Both trucks have junk for automatics. If you can drive or prefer a maunual, you are much better off as both had great manual transmissions. If an auto is a must, look for one with a "built" automatic (Suncoast, Monsterbox, BTS, etc.).

It doesn't sound like by what you're towing that you need more than a 3/4 ton, but if you find a nice 1-ton SRW, jump on it. 1-tons have a nice suspension upgrade that handles loads with less squatting.

My '99+ Ford superduties all lost automatics <70K miles and ball joints every 30K miles. A couple of them had leaking steering boxes and all had leaking rear main seals. Most developed another well know 7.3L problem known as "cackle", which is a problem related to the dead-head fuel sytem that makes the truck develop an ugly "knocking/cackling" noise.

The Dodges of that era, 99+, had their share of problems, too. Looking back on that time of truck ownership, if I could do it over again, I would have gone with Dodges over Fords just for the 5.9L diesel.

The good news is that you're buying a truck in probably the best buyer's market in the last 50 years. Sit tight and wait for the best deal. Don't be afraid to negotiate for DEEP discounts.

Whether it's Ford or Dodge, you're going to get a great deal. I would also keep an eye out for a newer Ford V-10 or a GM 8.1L gas with 50-75K miles on it. The Gm will have an Allison trans and an 11.5" mech locker. That's some really stout driveline gear.

Good luck

 

[Ryan03]

All high mileage trucks are not the same, regardless of make. We got rid of our 1999 7.3 ford 350 crew cabs at about 150k, however they idle all day on the jobsite for 8 to 10 hrs, running strobe lights, radios etc. At over 8 years old, they probably had 10,000 hrs on them, and needless to say, they were whooped.

My Duramax has a factory hour meter, and at 97k miles, is showing 2840 hrs, most of my miles are rural road and highway, so you can see how much the type of life the truck lives can effct its total amount of runtime vs miles.

200k highway with a good owner is nothing, but 100k of abuse and extended idling may not be. Buyer beware.

 

[RobertN]

I looked a few days ago on Craigslist locally; there were a lot of used diesel pickups for the $10-15 range. Some were just 125k miles or there abouts.

When I sold my '89 F250 gasser, it had 225k miles on it. It ran like a top; in fact at 215k miles, I did a 3000 mile trip of the western states and Alberta. So even the gassers can get good mileage, last well.

I have heard, but not seen personally the tranny issues of the late 90's early 2000's. I have 125k on my '01 Dodge; no issues stock. I have loaded it heavily; one time ~ 9k on trailer and a 2500lb pallet of block in the bed. Towed travel trailers, my tractor. I do not, however, tow daily like Builder and Diamond_Pilot.

My humble opinion, but I do not know why a shortbed truck was invented; Even as just a homeowner and small property owner, I use all of that 8' bed... A shortbed may manuever better, but I would not give up my longbed. I had a cross bed toolbox for a little while, effectively making it a shortbed; drove me nuts...

That, and since we recently got a 5th wheel rv, I like not worrying about hitting the cab or having to go with a sliding hitch.

Gas vs diesel, yes fuel price is one reason, although as you note it takes a while to make that up. But I like the diesel most for how it tows. The fuel mileage is a side benefit...

I really like my shorter quad cab. But we got the truck when my son was 7. It's cramped now that he is 15. I transport kids for Boy Scout outings; they are outgrowing the small back seat. For all else though, it is just fine.

Having my truck for 8 years, I would have done a couple things different. Don't get low gears in a diesel! I got 4.11's; my mileage is not as good as it could be, and I rev past the sweet spot on this Cummins on the highway. I also wish I would have got a stick. Not because of any tranny problems, but because I like gear jambing

Buileder mentioned a newer gasser V10 or 8.1L. I have a friend with the same 2001 Ram as me, except 2wd with a V10. They tow a 34' 5th wheel with slides all the time. Tows like a dream. Better than the Hemi I hear; some of thier friends have Hemi's and think the v10 was a better towing motor.

IMHO, I would look at the 100-125k trucks. I would look, not only at the motor, but close attention to the rest of the truck; it may give some indication of how well it was taken care of.

 

[Groo]

My company runs E350 cargo vans
They used to have some 7.3s, but quite buying them and stick to 5.4s now. I think its mainly that the 7.3 is too much engine for a van, but the gas engines go as long as the deisels do. They usualy sell off running vans around 500,000 miles. maintain it and you should be fine.

one thing to remember. Its the trannies that go on the era deisel trucks you are looking at. The company mind set seamed to be "we'll just tune them down till the tranny can handle them" Just barely strong enough is not what you want in a tranny you plan on hauling a camper across the county with.

The sticks are better than the slushboxes, but but I remember some nut backing out in the 5 speeds behind the cummins. It would at least still move, but youd loose 5th gear. I don't know how common the problem was, or if they found a workable fix for it, but I did see it on a few trucks when I was working for a Dodge dealer in the mid 90s

 

[Dargo]

Engine-wise, if a high mileage truck is going to be purchased a 5.9L will live a longer average life than a 7.3L. I believe the 5.9L has a longer B life than a 7.3L. The 5.9L is the stoutest engine ever installed in a light duty truck. Afterall, it's used as a farm tractor/combine, scraper engine. Most heavy duty app a 7.3L will see is in a school bus.

Next would be the remainder of the truck. The Ford might have some advantages, but if you're buying a 100K + mile truck, my guess is most all wear items have been replaced or upgraded. I'd doubt you'll find one with the original automatic, ball joints, steering parts, alternator, starter, etc.

Both trucks have junk for automatics. If you can drive or prefer a maunual, you are much better off as both had great manual transmissions. If an auto is a must, look for one with a "built" automatic (Suncoast, Monsterbox, BTS, etc.)

I don't particularly agree with Builder on much, but I have to go along with what he said here. The only thing I'd add is that I've seen most people at the truck pulls and drags running ATS, Goerend and Suncoast transmissions. All of these vendors have very strong transmissions at reasonable prices unless you want an extreme duty tranny for truck pulling or drag racing. I worked with Clint Canon, the owner, of ATS. Even though their transmissions are dyno tested before being shipped I had one fail almost immediately after it was installed. Clint not only covered the expense to ship me a new transmission, shipping the old one back, but also 100% of the additional expenses in labor etc. to swap it out. I've heard similar stories about Suncoast and Goerend being good with after the sale support.

I drove the heck out of a '96 Dodge with a heavily modified Cummins. Other than having a few track bar issues in the front end, the truck overall was extremely reliable. I currently have the fortunate issue of needing to buy another dually diesel. Although I'm extremely pleased with the '06 F350 I have, I'm considering going back to a 5.9 Cummins powered Dodge or possibly even give a Duramax a try. Even my most ardent Ford friends admit that the 5.9 Cummins will outlast a 7.3 PSD with all things being equal.

 

[DavidVT]

I would go with the 5.9 but have to admit being a 5.9 owner for over 10 years.

For a Dodge, pay attention to the body and front end components.

My 99 Ram is spent, all but the drivetrain. 10 years of Vermont salt has all but destroyed it. Still pulls like crazy but passing inspection this fall is no longer a given.... Never had a problem with my 5th gear nut. I did do in my 3rd gear syncro which was totally my fault due to HP toys and screwing around with my mid-life crisis toy (the dodge).

My 91 Suburban 99% rust free sits in the woods, just waiting for the Dodge body to fail so it can be re-engined with the oil burner.... (just a dream)

 

[Diamondpilot]

For your needs do as others have suggested and get a Ford V-10 or the GM 8.1. For your money you will get a truck with 1/3 the miles, more features, and not someone elses problem they are trying to dump.

Diesels like to be driven and do not do good setting. With you only doing 3k per year you are looking for trouble.

The 05 and newer Ford V10 will have the Torque Shift Tranny which is a dream to drive just like the Allison. Stay away from the Hemi powered Dodges. Great motor but should have stayed out of trucks. The power ban is just way too high. A V10 Dodge is the only real option but they are few and far between so I would stick with looking for a Ford or GM big Gas SRW 350/3500.

Chris

 

[jas67]

Diesels like to be driven and do not do good setting. With you only doing 3k per year you are looking for trouble.

I will probably drive it to work once every week or two to keep it from getting too much "inertial." I try to drive all me vehicles periodically (although, my '67 Firebird does see the road Jan, Feb, or March, I do pull it outside and start the engine and let it warm up every few weeks).

What about fuel stability? In my experience, esp. with the Ethanol-tainted fuel, gassers need to be driven too. A lot of us on this forum have diesel tractors that only get used occasionally too. I haven't heard of problems from these due to sitting.

I will definitely be more inclined to drive a diesel more often than a V10 or 8.1L gasser, just because the fuel use of the large gasser will be more of a disincentive. My wife and I try to be as "green" as we can, without being extreme and sacrificing too much. We've switched all our lighting to CFL's, are upgrading the windows in our house, bought high-efficiency appliances, etc, and will likely buy turbo-diesel powered cars for our next daily drivers.

I have two friends with 5.9L Cummins Dodges (a '97 12V, and a '99 24V) that use them for seasonal towing (a race car, and a boat), but both trucks sit much of the winter (one of them is 2WD). Neither have had problems related to them sitting.

I definitely think that I will be looking for a sub-150k-mile truck. I think it is worth the additional money. I was considering buying a 2WD truck, as they seem to go for a few thousand less, but that would mean it would sit a lot more in the winter, and also, I've been to camp grounds that if it rains, it might be difficult to get a 7000 trailer out without getting stuck.

Anyone here have a diesel truck that only gets used 3-5k miles per year? I'd like to hear from you.

Thanks,
Jay

 

[MDM]

My Father in law has an 02' 7.3L F-250. I has 11,000 miles on it, with no problems. Drives it about 1,500 miles a year and even less the last few years.