7 dust going the way of stuff that works

[Jeff244]

I need to learn how to do the quote and copy and past thing better, sorry.


Jeff

 

[bp fick]

I don't wish to be preachy, but one of the issues is how much of anything is tolerable to humans, toxicity wise, is this: There are 1000's of toxins, which when measured separately, can be said, with some, shaky assurance, that "just so much" is tolerable. The problem is that 10 milligrams of this, plus 50 milligrams of that, plus hundreds of milligrams more of 1000 other toxins and nobody, nobody can give any assurances anymore.

I have PCBs in my body that can never be flushed out, sent there by poisoned milk ages ago. (I'm a Michigander). I have DDT too. So what's is the tolerable level of this combined toxic soup? Neither of those elements belong in nature. Man made them in a lab and now, they in water sheds, lakes, fish, and people. I am on no campaign, as I don't tilt at windmills a lot.

The complexity is far beyond the scope of single trials on one chemical. The evidence continues to mount against these pesticide products. Learning new ways to live will take time, but the re-learning is urgent. At least it is to me.

 

[dave1949]

I don't wish to be preachy, but one of the issues is how much of anything is tolerable to humans, toxicity wise, is this: There are 1000's of toxins, which when measured separately, can be said, with some, shaky assurance, that "just so much" is tolerable. The problem is that 10 milligrams of this, plus 50 milligrams of that, plus hundreds of milligrams more of 1000 other toxins and nobody, nobody can give any assurances anymore.

I have PCBs in my body that can never be flushed out, sent there by poisoned milk ages ago. (I'm a Michigander). I have DDT too. So what's is the tolerable level of this combined toxic soup? Neither of those elements belong in nature. Man made them in a lab and now, they in water sheds, lakes, fish, and people. I am on no campaign, as I don't tilt at windmills a lot.

The complexity is far beyond the scope of single trials on one chemical. The evidence continues to mount against these pesticide products. Learning new ways to live will take time, but the re-learning is urgent. At least it is to me.

Go ahead and preach a bit BP I respect your comments, your 'boots on the ground' farm efforts and the experience you can share in the process. I hope others do as well.

While clinical trials are useful if done impartially and in a way that makes sense, it seems that isn't always what happens. Maybe a few posters here have the expertise to ferret out bogus trials, I sure don't. I would read those with a grain of salt. It is easy to design a test that favors an outcome, just like a teacher knows how to write a test that will be easy, or impossible, to pass.
Dave.

 

[Rob-D]

I don't wish to be preachy, but one of the issues is how much of anything is tolerable to humans, toxicity wise, is this: There are 1000's of toxins, which when measured separately, can be said, with some, shaky assurance, that "just so much" is tolerable. The problem is that 10 milligrams of this, plus 50 milligrams of that, plus hundreds of milligrams more of 1000 other toxins and nobody, nobody can give any assurances anymore.

I have PCBs in my body that can never be flushed out, sent there by poisoned milk ages ago. (I'm a Michigander). I have DDT too. So what's is the tolerable level of this combined toxic soup? Neither of those elements belong in nature. Man made them in a lab and now, they in water sheds, lakes, fish, and people. I am on no campaign, as I don't tilt at windmills a lot.

The complexity is far beyond the scope of single trials on one chemical. The evidence continues to mount against these pesticide products. Learning new ways to live will take time, but the re-learning is urgent. At least it is to me.

That's exactly right. Carbaryl is a money maker and the producers keep trying to keep it going, take a look at the EPA sheets on it. We know it causes cancer, kills beneficials such as bees, now it comes out that it's affecting fishing because it kills steel head trout.

Here's the EPA carbaryl sheets:

Carbaryl | Pesticides | US EPA

By the way PCBs are a product of Monsanto, they found out it was carcinogenic and hid it from the public until they got caught. Now it's off the market. Just because it says safe on the box doesn't mean it's safe.

Now add that chemical the long list of crap we're exposed to everyday and you have a dangerous mix. I advise people to use as little as possible and expose themselves to as little as possible.

Rob

 

[Redbug]

I checked out the "Bayer Complete Insect Dust" at Lowe's when I was there today. I bought a bag to compare. It comes in a 4 pound bag and is .25% permethren. Around $6 a bag. The price compares with the sevin 5%.

And let me say this about that...
There is more to the Round Up Ready corn and other crops than just spraying the glyphosate. We don't know all of what other problems these genetically altered crops can cause. The pollen from one field of corn can affect another field down the road. Maybe that other field is a Heritige type which may be considered more natural. The guy growing the natural type may get altered seeds at the end of the year from the blown pollen down the road. That messes up his corn production the next year. We don't know if these genetically altered pollens are affecting the bees, either. And we don't know if we are eating the corn with these genes and what other effects they may have...

The poor in 3rd world countries have to buy their seed from Monsanto instead of putting some aside from their crop for the following year. That seed was free. It's like getting a person hooked on drugs or tobacco. There's a lot going on we are not aware of...

I understand that all crops have been genetically altered. Ever since the original maize from the Indians, people have made different varieties of the same crop. Big Boy and Better Boy tomatoes for instance. But what's going on today involving the chemicals and genes...I feel is different...

 

[Rob-D]

Well said Dave,
And let me make the distinction here between glyphosate (Roundup) and GMO corn.

What happens is that the GMO corn is genetically resistant to Roundup so a farmer sprays his fields with Roundup and plants, without tilling, GMO corn like we're seeing around here. If that seed blows into your fields, Monsanto can sue you for using their corn, and win! Even though you don't want it in any way, shape or form.

The bigger problem is this, ok we get DDT, PCBs and all the rest of it. Ten years down the road we find they cause problems and we stop using them. What happens in ten years if we find out GMO corn is causing problems? We're screwed! We have GMO fish in our streams mixing with wild fish, we have corn mixing with wild corn and in South America corn that has been saved for thousands of years is now getting mixed with GMO.

Rob

 

[bp fick]

Go ahead and preach a bit BP I respect your comments, your 'boots on the ground' farm efforts and the experience you can share in the process. I hope others do as well.

Dave.

Thanks Dave,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6mgE5NhEM

Here's a quick little slide show of this year's gardening. What does it show? Well, for one thing, that growing without the use of such products is indeed possible. In fact, I believe the plants thrive and the produce tastes profoundly better. It does take a re-education of "how to's".

The title of this thread is about stuff "that works". My contention is that natural methods "work" and work well. While not everything "works" exactly the same for me that "works" for organic farmers in Kentucky, Texas or Maine, nonetheless, I contend the learning curve is enjoyable, rewarding and profitable.

 

[dave1949]

Thanks Dave,

YouTube - Plants.mov

Here's a quick little slide show of this year's gardening. What does it show? Well, for one thing, that growing without the use of such products is indeed possible. In fact, I believe the plants thrive and the produce tastes profoundly better. It does take a re-education of "how to's".

The title of this thread is about stuff "that works". My contention is that natural methods "work" and work well. While not everything "works" exactly the same for me that "works" for organic farmers in Kentucky, Texas or Maine, nonetheless, I contend the learning curve is enjoyable, rewarding and profitable.

Nice video of your garden and the banjo pickin' is sweet. :thumbsup:

Just reminded me, I have to go check for beetles on my eggplant Don't ask me why we planted eggplant, just a whim I guess.
Dave.

 

[Rob-D]

Thanks Dave,

YouTube - Plants.mov

Here's a quick little slide show of this year's gardening. What does it show? Well, for one thing, that growing without the use of such products is indeed possible. In fact, I believe the plants thrive and the produce tastes profoundly better. It does take a re-education of "how to's".

The title of this thread is about stuff "that works". My contention is that natural methods "work" and work well. While not everything "works" exactly the same for me that "works" for organic farmers in Kentucky, Texas or Maine, nonetheless, I contend the learning curve is enjoyable, rewarding and profitable.

Wow! Nice garden. I know what kind of work that takes!

 

[jinman]

Hey thanks Ford and Jim! They do exist! I will compare and order one. I have been using a large salt shaker, but the duster is the thing to use. It can reach places with a fine dust much better than a shaker. It's odd these things are so hard to come across these days.

I think I found my traditional duster at Tractor Supply in their seasonal sale area a few years ago, but Amazon.com has a fine looking plastic construction duster made by Gilmour. It has a snout for getting into/under leaves. The duster is less than $16 and combined with another purchase for a total of $25, you can get SuperSaver free shipping. I have found that going to Amazon and searching for articles turns up an amazing amount of things I thought they would never sell.