8N Electrical Issue

[aschwerin]

Yes I am not sure if it is logical. Busy tomorrow, but I will doublecheck everything I have said in a couple days. I will also take some pictures of my setup.

Yes, the sparks are on making contact and releasing contact. The sparks leave electrical marks on the metals.

Ok, another fella recommended I replace the cables. I feel like I've done that in the past but maybe it was a different machine.

 

[LD1]

Yes, some pics of what and where you are jumping to will help.

There is a lug at the starter that IS hot at all times. Direct connection to battery. IF you are unhooking and rehooking there, it would be the same sparking as when unhooking and hooking up the battery.

Did you try jumping around the push button as I mention? Go straight to the S terminal with known 12v

 

[Scrambler82]

Did they make a 12 volt starter for the 8N ?
If you have replaced the cables at sometime in the near past then check the connections, they need to be clean, no rust or grime.
Another thought... Run a separate ground from the negative terminal on the battery to one o fmthe mounting bolts for the starter. The problem may not be the cables or the connections but instead the ground path may not be a good one from the starter back to the battery and without a good ground then the start no work very good.
Also, I do not know so take,this for what it is worth, does the starter us a solenoid, ether separate or mounted on the starter. If the solenoid is mounted to the firewall or other metal make sure the mounting is clean and is tight.

Just thinking out loud.

Good Luck

 

[Soundguy]

Starter is held on with 2 ling thin bolts, ground ti the chassis is thru connection, solenoid mounts to the starter.

Us it a 6v starter?

 

[aschwerin]

Starter is held on with 2 ling thin bolts, ground ti the chassis is thru connection, solenoid mounts to the starter.

Us it a 6v starter?

I don't actually know if its 6V or 12V. The original was of course 6V, and this replacement acts exactly the same.

Here are pictures. My solenoid is not mounted on the starter. I have seen both versions in pictures. I had taken the battery out to have it tested at Wal-Mart and it had good voltage and good cranking amps. There is usually a battery in there...

Also ignore the voltmeter wiring. It was hooked through alternator #1 wire which I removed from I terminal just to make sure the alternator wasn't causing a short or something

 

[LD1]

You say that jumping a hot straight to the starter doesn't work, try jumping a ground also. Go from the battery negative to some clean spot on the starter case. The retry the hot and see if it spins.

That way you give a direct ground to starter and not relying on chassis

 

[Scrambler82]

My thoughts are two fold...
1) The starter is a 6 volt starter.
First off it draws more current than a 12 volt starter and may be causing the biggest problems in starting and that is why you had to double up on batteries to jump it.
If you really want this tractor you should consider either looking for a 12 volt version of the starter or find someone able to perform miracles and transform the starter to 12 volts.
2) Being the wiring.
A) The "I" terminal in the solenoid is to give a 12 volt shot to the coil when starting only to get things goings, your wiring has a resistor in line. If your coils/points/condenser is converted to 12 volts then it isn't getting start voltage. If the ignition components are still 6 volts and you are using 12 volts,on them, then they won't last long and may even cause starting problems.
I usually have seen the resistors in the main coil hot not the solenoid feed.
B) the solenoid, make sure there is bare metal and a good conductive paste between the solienoid and the mounting bracket for the solenoid, make sure it is tight. The mounting bracket is the ground for the solenoid.
C) The starter connections, eliminate the brass strip between the solenoid wire and the start post, too many connections. Also, as LD1 and I have suggested run the extra ground wire to one of the starter mounting bolts to give the starter a better path to battery ground and not depend on all of the poor connection through the chassis and other components.
Second thought... That brass strip may be an older attempt at a 6 volt shunt, it may be needed.

I think your biggest problem is the starter, if 6 volts it is taking a beating every time you use it. You need to make sure it is a 12 volt setup. Clean up the wiring, eliminate all of the extra connections and check the purpose of the resistor on the "I" leg of the solenoid.

Remember one thing, I am not an automotive Electrican, I am just throwing out ideas some of which may be thrown right out the window but they are things that have worked in the past on older hot rods.

Good luck, take your time, clean things up, check things out.

 

[Soundguy]

8n don't use bypass solenoids.

6v starters run Fine on 12v, they spin even faster.

If the bats are good, and the connection are good, and the tractor runs once started, look at the starter and drive.

 

[aschwerin]

I had a chance to look at the tractor today. Double-checking all my connections as I put the battery back in....I noticed there is zero resistance between starter stud and ground/starter body. I disconnected from solenoid just to make sure that wasn't grounding out. I vaguely remember that maybe being the case with my old starter too. Is that normal, or maybe an issue?

Soundguy, that sounds like good troubleshooting. By drive you mean starter gear/flywheel/crankshaft?

Scrambler82, the brass strip came on the starter like that. I had broken off the stud on my old starter overtightening it so I just used the brass strip as it was there. I did take it off for a more direct connection but starter still does not spin.

I think I came on here because I really wanted to validate what Soundguy has validated. With a good connection, putting a good battery on a starter should always spin it. Either there is too much force in the tractor for the starter to overcome, or there is a problem with the starter.

 

[Soundguy]

having low, near zero ohms from starter stud to case is normal. having 0 ohms stud to case is not normal.

the starter is pretty much 2 big balls of copper.. you don't want alot of resistance to ground thru the armature. field has some.. but not much. Consumer grade VOM's may only tell you a very close reading when you get down to 4 ohms or less.

that said. if it says 0, pull the starter for a looksee. never know you might find a bad brush connection or other problem.