911 response time

[CobyRupert]

It's been maybe 30 years, but I did have a lady at my front door ask to use the phone. Her car had quit, and she needed help. I made her stand outside, while I retrieved the cordless from the kitchen. Today, anyone asking to use the phone is suspicious, particularly when virtually everyone today has a cell phone. Even I have a flip phone that I take with me when I'm on the road.

In all honesty I can imagine a scenario where OP was very justified.
I can also imagine a scenario where reaction was overblown.
I also know I don't know all the facts.
Perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate because I don't carry a cell phone.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I think she might be best served by carrying a pistol concealed on her rather than having it in a safe and away from her. It would keep someone from getting between her and a gun, as well as keeping small hands away. If she's careful of the selection and how it's carried, no one would know it is on her.

^^THIS^^^
I am a horse owner and farmer and always have at least my smallest pistol with me (S &W Shield 40 cal) and I hardly notice it and those that visit either know I carry it and never mention it or don't ever notice it.
That's the minimum that I carry when riding too.

I figure at least the same amount of time for a police response to my house, more if I am anywhere else on the farm. Go armed go often.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My inlaws gas grill caught on fire a few years ago. Somehow the tank started leaking and it got bad. They called 911 then videoed it. It took 17 minutes for the FD to get there. Sadly the nearest FD is less than 1,000 feet from there driveway, it's a volunteer FD.

A friend had his boat catch on fire. It was parked right next to his house and the boat fire spread to his house. His house burned almost to the ground before the fire dept put it out. The volunteer fire dept was directly across the road from his house. Even the most responsive emergency response personnel rarely get to the site early enough to prevent damage.
It has been said that police dont prevent crimes, they just investigate the results.

 

[oosik]

I have never had to call 911 and wait for LEO. We HAVE called 911 for ambulance service. It took 47 minuets for the ambulance/paramedic crew to roll into my yard.

With that firmly planted in my mind - YES, I DO have the necessary tools to defend. If I ever need the services of LEO.

 

[Ortimber]

In all honesty I can imagine a scenario where OP was very justified.
I can also imagine a scenario where reaction was overblown.
I also know I don't know all the facts.
Perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate because I don't carry a cell phone.

How long do you have to decide whether you are facing a friend or foe? What's the correct reaction?

 

[Steppenwolfe]

:devil: Devil's advocate here:

Real crime of the century: A guy walks up to your house and asking to use the phone....and.......??? :confused3:

Your wife screams bloody murder, yells "Get the gun!" and calls the cops. Why?

Do you have "No Trespassing" signs?

You ask him to leave and he does (while you're making (very thinly veiled) threats about shooting him). OK. Done. What's the crime?

So, what was her complaint to the police? What was HER suspicion based on?

What did the police do? Arrest him for existing? Excessive tattoos? Failure to drive a car? Pedestrian-ing without a cell phone?

Sounds like there was only one party (not counting the cops you brought) bringing gun play and threats of violence to the scene and creating a disturbance.

:confused2:

 

[Diggin It]

How long do you have to decide whether you are facing a friend or foe? What's the correct reaction?

Until the other party gives you reason to decide. Could be seconds or hours.

Whatever is appropriate to mitigate whatever threat is presented.

 

[Jstpssng]

I carry a cell phone provided by my employer. Most of the time I don't have strong enough service to make a call. I can drive for a week without seeing 2 bars on my signal meter. At least with Bluetooth I can now glance at the dash to check the signal, rather than messing with the phone. It's not uncommon to drive 20 miles trying to find service, or plan my day around making phone calls so that I can use my land line.
Words in a post really can't convey the exact situation, so only the OP knows the exact situation. Yet as I was reading his post I found myself wondering if his wife had overreacted. What if there had been an accident and the guy was looking to call for help? She called the right number, yet possibly for the wrong reasons.

A followup is in order, if the guy really was arrested for anything.

 

[turnkey4099]

For this area, 8 minutes would be a pretty fast response.

I don't know how many times I was the only county LEO on duty and be on the extreme limits of the county and get a call for the extreme limits on the other side of the county. City PD rarely leaves the city limits and many times late at night, state police may only have one or two troopers covering a four county area.

Ambulance is just as bad. While they're centrally located, many times they're asleep late at night when the call comes in, or they're at Walmart and I sometimes think they get a call, then head to the checkout counter before they worry about responding.

Yep, I dispatched for county and talking a person down some while waiting out a 15-30 response time was not fun. Worst was 3am (no deputies/state on duty) guy calls he is holding a couple guys at gun point who wee trying to steal gas. Had to call out deputies for a 30 minute run to the scene. I am only 4 miles north of town but if an ambulance is needed I can be at the hospital with my wife already in the ER before the ambulance is ready to leave town.

 

[turnkey4099]

I carry a cell phone provided by my employer. Most of the time I don't have strong enough service to make a call. I can drive for a week without seeing 2 bars on my signal meter. At least with Bluetooth I can now glance at the dash to check the signal, rather than messing with the phone. It's not uncommon to drive 20 miles trying to find service, or plan my day around making phone calls so that I can use my land line.
Words in a post really can't convey the exact situation, so only the OP knows the exact situation. Yet as I was reading his post I found myself wondering if his wife had overreacted. What if there had been an accident and the guy was looking to call for help? She called the right number, yet possibly for the wrong reasons.

A followup is in order, if the guy really was arrested for anything.

the OP did say he was at the back door. That alone raises it to DANGER!

 

[kf4uda]

I am glad everything worked out and no one was hurt. For those of us that live in the country, we need to be especially prepared to be the "first res-ponder" in various situations. We need to have basic firefighting, first aid and self defense skills and equipment (fire extinguisher, first aid kit, firearm or other defensive weapon). That person coming to your door may be a threat or may be in drastic need of medical or other life threatening help or that person needing help may be a family member inside your home. A few hours spent learning these basic skills is well worth the time.

Always call 911 first but a lot can happen even in just 8 minutes.

 

[Jstpssng]

the OP did say he was at the back door. That alone raises it to DANGER!

As has been previously pointed out, many front doors are for ornamental purposes only.

 

[Ortimber]

I am glad everything worked out and no one was hurt. For those of us that live in the country, we need to be especially prepared to be the "first res-ponder" in various situations. We need to have basic firefighting, first aid and self defense skills and equipment (fire extinguisher, first aid kit, firearm or other defensive weapon). That person coming to your door may be a threat or may be in drastic need of medical or other life threatening help or that person needing help may be a family member inside your home. A few hours spent learning these basic skills is well worth the time.

Always call 911 first but a lot can happen even in just 8 minutes.

Excellent advice!

 

[drssg]

:devil: Devil's advocate here:

Real crime of the century: A guy walks up to your house and asking to use the phone....and.......??? :confused3:

Your wife screams bloody murder, yells "Get the gun!" and calls the cops. Why?

Do you have "No Trespassing" signs?

You ask him to leave and he does (while you're making (very thinly veiled) threats about shooting him). OK. Done. What's the crime?

So, what was her complaint to the police? What was HER suspicion based on?

What did the police do? Arrest him for existing? Excessive tattoos? Failure to drive a car? Pedestrian-ing without a cell phone?

Sounds like there was only one party (not counting the cops you brought) bringing gun play and threats of violence to the scene and creating a disturbance.

To follow up on your devil’s advocate position, suppose there WAS a perfectly innocent explanation for this shirtless tattooed guy at the back door in the middle if the night. After the home owner told him the police were on the way, he should have said, “Thank you,” and waited 8 minutes at the end of the driveway. The police could help him with whatever problem he was experiencing. The fact that he disappeared tells me that the home owner’s suspicion was probably accurate.

Even without this Monday morning quarterbacking, I think the OP did all the right things. He took control of a suspicious situation, and he didn’t chase the guy down the driveway. He was well within his rights and reasonable behavior.

 

[Gator6x4]

My inlaws gas grill caught on fire a few years ago. Somehow the tank started leaking and it got bad. They called 911 then videoed it. It took 17 minutes for the FD to get there. Sadly the nearest FD is less than 1,000 feet from there driveway, it's a volunteer FD.

I think I would have been squirting water instead of taking videos.

 

[Diggin It]

he should have said, “Thank you,” and waited 8 minutes at the end of the driveway. The police could help him with whatever problem he was experiencing. The fact that he disappeared tells me that the home owner’s suspicion was probably accurate.

He walked west away from the house. There are no other houses that can be seen in that direction. He got down to the bridge over the highway and then turned back toward our house. Walked back past our house the other way.

County police finally showed up. Some 8 minutes later.

We don't know that he disappeared and didn't make contact with the unit.

 

[CobyRupert]

I advised him through the closed door that we were armed and he needed to leave.

To follow up on your devilç—´ advocate position, suppose there WAS a perfectly innocent explanation for this shirtless tattooed guy at the back door in the middle if the night. After the home owner told him the police were on the way, he should have said, "thank you, and waited 8 minutes at the end of the driveway. The police could help him with whatever problem he was experiencing. The fact that he disappeared tells me that the home owner's suspicion was probably accurate.

Even without this Monday morning quarterbacking, I think the OP did all the right things. He took control of a suspicious situation, and he didn稚 chase the guy down the driveway. He was well within his rights and reasonable behavior.

Ok, lacking other info, you make a good point for the "acted reasonably" camp.

....but...on the flip side....

If someone tells me their armed and I need to leave their property, I leave. Quickly. I wouldn't discuss my future travel plans and whereabouts with them.
And as has been pointed out, maybe he did meet up with the police and they did help him.
We don't know.

So what's y'all opinion on the following question: If someone is scared or frightened to the point they are screaming bloody murder by someone's unexpected presence (but that someone has done nothing, and whose reason for being there and intent is unknown), would you say that frightened person is in a state of mind to be making life or death decisions with a gun?

Would the "I feared for my life" defense apply in this case?
(Knowing only what we know)

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I agree a large dog(s) would be a better investment than cameras or alarms.They are a great deterrent.I have a drive way alarm but the dogs are always alerted first.

Yeah, I have one dog who is actively hostile toward strangers. If I had an intruder, I would go for the first aid kit rather than a gun.

 

[drssg]

So what's y'all opinion on the following question: If someone is scared or frightened to the point they are screaming bloody murder by someone's unexpected presence (but that someone has done nothing, and whose reason for being there and intent is unknown), would you say that frightened person is in a state of mind to be making life or death decisions with a gun?

Would the "I feared for my life" defense apply in this case?
(Knowing only what we know)

I can’t comment on how well a scared woman would function.

Generally speaking, the “I feared for my life” defense needs to be paired with the conclusion that a reasonable person would feel the same.

In Ohio, the boundary of the house is significant. Once inside, there is an “initial presumption” that the intruder poses a grave threat. So in a situation similar to this one, if the home owner shot through the door, and the intruder had not produced a firearm or made a threat, I think there’s a decent chance that the home owner goes to jail.

If the intruder kicked in the back door after being verbally challenged by the home owner, then there is not much need to ask further questions. IMHO.

 

[drssg]

This is a different scenario, but I thought it was an interesting read.

Your Tactical Training Scenario- Shot Through the Door | Buckeye Firearms Association

“2) Verbal Challenge. Many homeowners will just stay silent and ignore the suspicious knock on the door. I think that’s a bad idea. Most of the burglaries I investigate start with a knock at the door. The burglar doesn’t want to encounter an armed homeowner. He’ll knock at the door before he breaks in just to ensure there is no one home. When you don’t answer, he goes around to the back side of the house and breaks in.
Ignoring the knock at the door could actually INCREASE your risk for burglary.

A better option is to loudly ask: “Who is it?” Even a “Go away!” would suffice if you aren’t in the mood to be bothered.”