A black panther ???

[Jstpssng]

Theres more panthers down here than what local "officials " claim IMO .

I hear similar comments up here about certain animals including mountain lions and wolves. Often it's because if state agencies even hint that there might be some "rare or endangered species"- read, common elsewhere but not here- the Feds will step in and curtail activities which MIGHT affect said uncommon species yet will certainly be detrimental to the area.

 

[jyoutz]

About 15 years ago I was working on a wildfire incident management team on a fire in eastern AZ White Mountains. The highway was closed to the public and I was driving on the road to go to the heliport for an observation flight. I saw three mountain lions (cougars) walking single file on the road leaving the fire area. I stopped in the road and watched them pass me, continuing down the road away from the fire. As they passed me, they stopped and looked me in the eye, then moved on. That’s the best view I’ve had of wild lions up close. Usually they avoid human contact and I will see them run across a woods road and disappear quickly.

 

[cqaigy2]

I read that, also. Funny how when an animal is at the extreme extent of it's range there aren't as many around... yet we consider them "endangered". It's the same up here with the Canada lynx; there are plentiful across the border but "endangered" here.
Using that logic humans should be considered an endangered species in the Arctic Circle.

And pretty much every other animal on the planet. You think that's funny, how many people live on the bottom of the ocean?

 

[Moxie 15]

About 25 years ago I witnessed for over five minutes at about 70' a black Fla panther that walk through my property near what is referred to as the Corkscrew Swamp sanctuary ne of Naples , Fla 34120 . I would say it weighed like 33lbs at best . It was not that large . I don't care what people say or think I know what I saw .

I have no doubt. I lived in Hillsborough county Fl for 24 years. The Fish and Game 'experts' were always saying that there were no panthers in the county, yet we had a breeding pair of them at the landfill. The experts vehemently denied it until one of them got hit by a car. They also loudly argued that there were no Florida Crocodiles north of the everglades then a 16 foot one was captured in Lake Tarpon in a neighboring county. I often wondered about the 'experts'.

 

[jyoutz]

I have no doubt. I lived in Hillsborough county Fl for 24 years. The Fish and Game 'experts' were always saying that there were no panthers in the county, yet we had a breeding pair of them at the landfill. The experts vehemently denied it until one of them got hit by a car. They also loudly argued that there were no Florida Crocodiles north of the everglades then a 16 foot one was captured in Lake Tarpon in a neighboring county. I often wondered about the 'experts'.

Biologists are like everyone else: they provide information on what is known at the time. But animals move and habits change over time.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have no doubt. I lived in Hillsborough county Fl for 24 years. The Fish and Game 'experts' were always saying that there were no panthers in the county, yet we had a breeding pair of them at the landfill. The experts vehemently denied it until one of them got hit by a car. They also loudly argued that there were no Florida Crocodiles north of the everglades then a 16 foot one was captured in Lake Tarpon in a neighboring county. I often wondered about the 'experts'.

From my post earlier today...

Often it's because if state agencies even hint that there might be some "rare or endangered species"- read, common elsewhere but not here- the Feds will step in and curtail activities which MIGHT affect said uncommon species yet will certainly be detrimental to the area.

 

[bcp]

Interesting articles:

THE TRUTH ABOUT BLACK PUMAS - SEPARATING FACT FROM FICTION REGARDING MELANISTIC COUGARS

ShukerNature explores cryptozoology & animal mythology - bigfoot, chupacabras, yeti, vampires, sea monsters, Nessie, sasquatch, dragons, mystery cats.

karlshuker.blogspot.com

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livingalongsidewildlife.com

Extremely rare white cougar highlights a quirk of the species

“Another white cougar may not appear in my lifetime,” scientist says of unusual young male spotted in Brazil’s Atlantic Forest.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Bruce

 

[MossRoad]

Map of confirmed cougar sightings in the U.S. since 1990.

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www.cougarnet.org

 

[Rockbadchild]

look at that beast … killed in Alberta canada by steve ecklund in 2017 I couldn’t find the weight since he removed everything after the snowflake mob attack him for it despite hunting it legally.

 

[jyoutz]

look at that beast … killed in Alberta canada by steve ecklund in 2017 I couldn’t find the weight since he removed everything after the snowflake mob attack him for it despite hunting it legally.

When my father was younger, he had some hounds that he used for lion and bear hunting in Arizona. He took many clients on these hunts; mostly bear, but also lions. Neither are scarce in that country.

 

[check]

Cougars have attacked and even killed people in the mountains west of Calgary. They are a danger to runners and cyclists.

 

[MossRoad]

I have seen one black "panther" or cougar in my lifetime and it was about 40 years ago on a late night drive on I-10 on the Florida panhandle around the Apalachicola River area. It ran across the highway in front of my car close enough that I started to hit the brakes to avoid it. It was a large, long tailed black cat I estimate at 60 pounds. I don't know if it is called a puma, cougar or leopard but it was a black panther to me.

I don't doubt that you saw something big and dark colored. However, there has never been a documented case of a melanistic(black) cougar(mountain lion) in the U.S. The Florida Panther is a cougar. There just hasn't been one, ever, anywhere in the U.S. No photographs. No hunter kills. And more importantly, no road kills.

Not surprisingly, road kills and trapping/hunting are the primary ways populations of animals are tracked. One of our kids was involved with a bobcat population study in Indiana. The greatest source of their data was road kills by far (like 95% of it), followed by trapping/hunting.

 

[jyoutz]

I don't doubt that you saw something big and dark colored. However, there has never been a documented case of a melanistic(black) cougar(mountain lion) in the U.S. The Florida Panther is a cougar. There just hasn't been one, ever, anywhere in the U.S. No photographs. No hunter kills. And more importantly, no road kills.

Not surprisingly, road kills and trapping/hunting are the primary ways populations of animals are tracked. One of our kids was involved with a bobcat population study in Indiana. The greatest source of their data was road kills by far (like 95% of it), followed by trapping/hunting.

The photo of the one I saw at Fort Apache wasn’t fully black, just tail and tips on face. The animal was spotted like all jaguars I’ve seen in zoos.

 

[Rockbadchild]

it could've also been domesticated ?? I heard there is more domesticated big feline in the US then in Africa in the wild .... they ether escape or release by the owner because they cant afford to feed them.

 

[MossRoad]

it could've also been domesticated ?? I heard there is more domesticated big feline in the US then in Africa in the wild .... they ether escape or release by the owner because they cant afford to feed them.

While it could have been an animal that escaped from captivity, it still wouldn't be a cougar (mountain lion). It would be a black jaguar or black leopard. There are no black cougars (mountain lions) ever on record anywhere.

 

[Rockbadchild]

While it could have been an animal that escaped from captivity, it still wouldn't be a cougar (mountain lion). It would be a black jaguar or black leopard. There are no black cougars (mountain lions) ever on record anywhere.

ho yes I agree, I wasn't saying it could be a cougar, the article bcp shared clearly indicate how improbable that is.

 

[dmccarty]

Cougars have attacked and even killed people in the mountains west of Calgary. They are a danger to runners and cyclists.

The Fox Fire books have stories about big cats in the Appalachian mountains. The stories in the various Fox Fix books called them cougars, panthers, and the most interesting word, painters.

Fox Fire books are highly recommended both for rural leaving, but also history of how people still lived, not that long ago, in the mountains.

Foxfire Series

In 1966, an English teacher and students in Northeast Georgia founded a quarterly magazine, not only as a vehicle to learn the required English curriculum, but also to teach others about the customs, crafts, traditions, and lifestyle of their Appalachian culture. Named Foxfire after a local phosphorescent lichen, the magazine became one of the most beloved publications in American culture.For four decades, Foxfire has brought the philosophy of simple living to readers, teaching creative self-sufficiency, home crafts, and the art of natural remedies, and preserving the stories of Appalachia. This anniversary edition brings us generations of voices and lessons about the three essential Appalachian values of faith, family, and the land. We listen to elders share their own memories of how things used to be, and to the new generations eager to preserve traditional values in a more complicated world. There are descriptions of old church services, of popular Appalachian games and pastimes, and of family recipes. Rich with memories and useful lessons, this is a fitting tribute to this inspiring and practical publication that has become a classic American institution.

The stories talk about people being stalked, and sometimes killed, by cougars/panthers/painters.

One of the stories was about a man walking down a trail along a creek being stalked by a cougar. Years after reading the story, I was walking UP a trail along the same creek, and could not stop thinking about the cougar story. Never, hear or saw one, but did eventually see a big buck which ran off, and within a short distance of the buck, a big black bear got up and ran after the deer. We had seen two bear cubs further down slope so we were making lots of noise as we walked up the ridge.

There idea of there being native North American black panthers/cougars is controversial and debated. As is the Florida Panther, which is really a cougar, being unique from the rest of the cougar species. The game biologist will say that seeing a large black cat, aka Black Panther/Couger, is a escaped animal from overseas, not a native one. Though I wonder why there can't be a genetic roll of the dice that ends up with a black cougar from time to time. We saw twin, white bucks here years ago. What are the odds of that happening? If the doe can get the DNA die roll to have twins AND white fawns, why not a black cougar from time to time...

Scientists dispute or disallow things that violate what they think of as reality. If their theory(ies) disallow something, many scientists will attack the witness to the sighting that calls into question the theory. Rouge waves are a good example. Scientists have poo pooed the sightings by sailors for centuries of huge, out of order, waves. The "science" said these waves cannot exist, so the witnesses have to be wrong in what they report, no matter how expert the witness. After the Draupner Wave, and other evidence, the scientists now know that the sailors were right about rogue waves, and the science, and thus scientists, were wrong.

Later,
Dan

 

[MossRoad]

...Though I wonder why there can't be a genetic roll of the dice that ends up with a black cougar from time to time. We saw twin, white bucks here years ago. What are the odds of that happening? If the doe can get the DNA die roll to have twins AND white fawns, why not a black cougar from time to time...
...

White deer are either albinos or leucistic. Albinos have no melanin. So, white fur, feathers, pink eyes, etc. Leucistics have a partial loss of pigment in the skin. So they can have white or patchy fur, feathers, etc... but the eyes won't be pink like an albino.

You need two parents with the defective gene to pass down to make an albino baby. It's not a DNA die roll. Momma can look like a normal deer. She can mate with a buck that looks like a normal deer. However, if both of them have the recessive gene for albinism, they CAN have albino babies. They don't have to have albino babies. The babies can come out and look perfectly normal. But they'll have that recessive gene in them.

As for melanistic (black) cats, it only occurs in some species of cats. Never once has a cougar been documented as melanistic.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Mozambique produced a Black Panther. His name was Eusébio.

On topic, there were a few Pumas around the Inverness, Scotland area (esapees or establishing aliens, no natural population) in the 1990s. The one that killed a large number of my commerical flock of free range hens was the more normal sandy sort of colour, but a ghillie (gamekeeper) from about 15 miles away told me that "most" of the ones on his employer's estate were black.

Officially of course they did not exist, never did and never will - frighten off the tourists they would.

 

[dmccarty]

....

As for melanistic (black) cats, it only occurs in some species of cats. Never once has a cougar been documented as melanistic.

That last sentence is the key. One has never been documented but that does not mean they have not, or do not, exist.

The coelacanth was thought to be extinct once upon a time and it was a near run thing that one was caught, recognized for what it was, and then preserved. If the fish had not been preserved, the sighting would not have been believed. Just like rogue waves which have been seen for centuries but dismissed by scientists.

I don't know if a black cougar exists or have existed, but people report them from time to time, and while there is plenty of room for error, I don't dismiss them as all wrong either.

Later,
Dan