A fun discussion this time

[wroughtn_harv]

Last night at a shindig I got to talk to a nice young man who'd once worked for me a couple of weeks. He'd just graduated college and was waiting for a job to start and being friend of a friend he came to work for me. One of those help him out while helping me out kind of things we get into occasionally.

I wouldn't have been prouder of his successes if he'd been my own over the last three to four years. He's gotten married to a wonderful young lady and they seemed to be making all the right decisions. Both of them working up in their companys and buying a home and just doing great.

Then I heard they sold their home and moved into an apartment. They'd changed their lifestyle to one of zero debt.

So last night I asked him about how it was going in the apartment and why.

He explained I was partly responsible for their lifestyle change because of something I'd said during one of our conversations while he was working with me.

I remembered the conversation. We were talking about possesions, comparing the things the customer had with what those around us in our life had. Customer being a millionaire many times over.

I'd pointed out to him that we really never own things. They eventually own us. You can't have something without being responsible for it. That's why the person with so much can envy the freedom of the person with nothing. Or the person with nothing has same. Things don't make you free. Actually the opposite happens, life one oh one.

Needless to say I was setback a bit. A philosophical perspective that I had shared was taken literally by this young man and his bride when they were faced with our financial world of 2002. Both of them work in companys in the business section of the newspaper daily.

What was even more surprising to me was his happiness with their decision. He explained to me that by limiting their exposure, cutting back on things they were responsible for, he had more peace because they felt more secure. If one or both got laid off they could live well for considerable time and life was definately more simple.

Some points for fun discussion.

1. Do you believe it's true that we really don't have things but things have us?

2. Do you think this couple is missing out on another aspect of life, risk--reward? Nothing ventured, nothing gained you might say.

3. Do you find it interesting how a simple conversation can affect another's life?

 

[Thomas]

That does indeed make one think Harv.

1.No..each and everyone of us has the power once item becomes a true burden to step away.

2.Yes I do think the couple are missing out in some aspect,for isn't that a apart of life..learning & feeling etc..

3.Widsom from one will change another if there willing to listen,its been proven many times thru out history..The hand that rocks the cradde shall influence others.

Seem you have open the young man eyes which he should be thankful,for no college,books,talk shows etc..could teach feelings from the heart,and express there views at the sametime w/out judgement.

 

[jhburke]

I think that you can let things control you. It is like credit cards they aren't for everyone. If you can't control your urges then you must restrict your access to them. When you pay cash for something when you are out of cash at least what you have bought will be paid for. One of my best blessings that I received in life was when I could either pay for it or I could wait until I had the money to get it. There is some things you have to go in debt for when you are first starting out in life. But the quicker you can cut back on going in debt for things the quicker you can control your life.
As an example I now have more tools and equipment than I ever had as a young man. I have a Kubota tractor and equipment now that 30 years ago I would have loved to have. It is only in the last 10 years that I have been able to do this. And even then I started with a used yard tractor and as I could pay I upgraded.
I guess what I am getting at is have patience, don't try to have everthing at once. Just as I and others didn't have what we have now, we have aquired them over the years.

One blessing about haveing all the equipment now is that I enjoy helping others. I have my equipment paid for and I don't have to charge unless I feel like it. I can give of my time and tools because I don't have the money to just give to situations. I had better shut up now.
Oh by the way we would be very supprised by what our words and actions influences others.

 

[Chuck52]

Harv,

Was that a rented apartment they moved into? Some things, like a place to live, are good to own! I guess I'm just now getting into the "collecting stuff" phase of my own life, a little late I suppose. I've never had any of the hobbies, like hunting or fishing, that can lead to collections of things. I've gotten by over the years with tools that worked, but weren't anything I'd worry about losing. Now, I finally have a little land, and I plan to "collect" trees, shrubs and other improvements to the land, as well as the tools required to maintain the land. Somehow I don't worry about these things tying me down, though they probably will. Now, the toys of life, like the latest TV, or fanciest car, I can do without. It seems my philosophy subdivides the world of possessions into various classes

Chuck

 

[TAB]

Good morning WHarv. I've been busy pretty busy since I talked to you. Thanks.

In many cases I think that not only do the things have people, some people are so wrapped up in getting new, more or better things that they really aren't living any other life. As soon as they get the new thing they forget it and go for something else. Sadly I even see this with people who "want" kids. When they have them not much time is spent with them and the kids are more of a possession than part of their life. There are some things we need for everyday life and some things we need to have some enjoyment from life. That may be the hardest part of life, figureing out what we really need sometime before we die.

As for them missing something by not taking chances, no because they are in some ways. They're risking not owning something and if things go bad for them they could have nothing. I remember quite a few years back alot of friends borrowed for everything and had alot. I paid for what I had and it wasn't much, but when bad times hit here, their things all went back to the bank or the owner and I still had mine. This may also be a calming time in their life before they make some really big jumps.

I try not to forget that things that I say can make a major difference in someones life. I teach building trades and there have been many times kids (young adults) have come back to me and said how if it weren't for me and my class they wouldn't have finished school and couldn't imagine where they would be now. I remember that my building trades teacher made a big difference in my life. Heck, that is my life.

I like the (shindigs) we have around here, because even though we're a bunch of country hicks we get to talk. Thanks again WHarv.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Having coached youth basketball for years I've enjoyed that experience a number of times and it never gets old or feels anything other than absolutely incredible when I hear something like that from one of them.

As to the power possessions have over us, I believe it's true in some cases but doesn't have to be. I have a good friend who always had the most beautiful home, perfectly decorated with the nicest cars in the garage and the most outstanding wardrobe I'd ever seen. He lost it all in a horrific fire.

We talked about it afterwards and he said he was never going to worry about "stuff" again. He still has a nice home, beautifully decorated and drives a nice car and dresses very well. The difference is he doesn't value those things as he once did. I learned from him that that is the key. It's not what you have or don't, it's what you choose to value.

As to what the couple of which you speak might be missing, we all miss things-it's a part of life and the decisions we make. Simply put, if they are enjoying the life they're living, then they're making the right decisions. Personally, I couldn't imagine working for someone else. I have a guy who works for me who can't imagine why I do it. It's all a matter of your perspective.

As to the effects one can have on another, it is truly amazing sometimes. I'm probably more aware of being the one who got the advice than the one who gave it, but I do have memories of each. As I wrote above, the feeling I get when I hear something like that from one of my former players is both indescribable and wonderful. I still say I've gotten far more than I've given with those kids. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[BigDave]

Harv,

1. We do have things until you make an emotional attachment to the thing. If you don't have an attachment, then the thing is removable from your life. Consider this: You have a 65 Mustang, it's your dream car, but needs tons maintenance and is unreliable. You love this car. It owns you. Now lets say you own a 75 Vega with the same level of problems, you get rid of it, it's not worth owning to you. You don't have an emotional attachement. Ownership does envoke responsibility: Maintenance, Insurance, Care & Feeding, etc. We have a cat and have an emotional attachment as well as the responsibility of care & feeding. I have grandfather clock that need winding every week, no emotional attachment, but responsibility to wind it. If at some point, I decide that this is a P.I.T.A., the clock will go out the door. It's just a thing.

2. If the couple is truly happy, then they are missing out on nothing. My brother & sister-in-law have similar incomes and similar number of years out of college as we do. They live a life of services. They have someone clean their house. Someone else to walk their dog. Someone to weed their flowers, etc. They buy season tickets to the local pro teams. They eat out at expensive restaurants ($150/meal) Thet have small house, old furniture, cheaper cars. There's only so much money that anyone has, so they made their trade offs. My wife & I are at the opposite end of the spectrum. We have large house, more expensive cars, nice furniture, I even dropped $20K on a tractor I really didn't need. We do all of our yard work, our own cleaning, our own cooking. We buy things on sale, and almost never pay retail, it's worth the effort to save some money. We aren't envious of our brother & sister-in-laws life, it is apparent "she" is envious of our things. I don't think she has bought into their lifestyle completely. I don't think she is truly happy, but of course she may be the type of person who wants everythig, and thus will never be truly happy.

3. Philosposphy is a dangerous thing. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Words can be a dangerous thing. Some guy named Adolf started a big ruckus a number of years ago, starting with some words that inspired others who translated those words into murderous actions. Words have also inspired peace & love. Words are a powerful thing. A simple comment can bring joy or pain without intention. PLEASE DON"T TAKE A VOW OF SILENCE. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Just be careful who you are talking to; you know like a bunch of people that you have never met on a bulletin board. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[MossRoad]

1. Do you believe it's true that we really don't have things but things have us?

Only if you forget that it is just a thing. My mom's father use to call his van or truck "the machine". He had no emotional attachment to it. It was a tool for a purpose. Photos, family treasures, heirlooms are all nice to have because they bring up memories. It's the memories that have us, not the things.

2. Do you think this couple is missing out on another aspect of life, risk--reward? Nothing ventured, nothing gained you might say.

Not if they have peace of mind. Once you have food, clothing and shelter, the rest is just gravy. If you have acheived those three things what's to worry? What else can you gain? What else do you need to gain? Are you really gaining anything?

3. Do you find it interesting how a simple conversation can affect another's life?

Yes. My whole adult life has been affected by two conversations. The first with my folks about making babies. It went something like, "Don't practice making babies if you can not fulfill your resposibilities if you create a human being." The other conversation was with a priest that told a story about his brother. He married young, before learning a trade or going to college, made babies with his un-educated wife and now will spend the rest of his life working his a$$ off and never have a clean T-shirt to wear. The priest actually told us to marry a girl with an education who has a job and makes at least as much money as you do. Then he went on to tell us to wait a few year after geting married to have children. That way you get to do some living with your wife first before devoting your life to children. This was unheard of from a priest at that time. I was only 14 or 15 years old at the time, but for some reason those two simple conversations made me what I am today... happy with my life choices. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif