I guess you are right, that the 9 is a little anemic, but I have a 380, beside my chair where I watch TV, what would you call that anemic, anemic?? But I have heard that some officers carry them when off duty, because they are small. Hey a lot of people have been killed with a 22. Anything beats a rock or club.
a gun....a tool?
- Thread starter itsmecindi
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Slamfire
Veteran Member
On the wall behind me is a rack with 4 working guns, 2 20 gauge pumps, a .22 semi auto, and my black powder rifle. In the safe in the bedroom a 12 gauge pump, two bolt action rifles that shoot .260 cartridges, although the barrels are marked .263 Express. A 12 gauge pump shotgun and 5 belly guns, one carried by my great grandfather when he was in Hanover, PA with Custer, the others chambered for .22 Mag. In my dresser drawer a .44 special. Somewhere on my wife's person a 9mm Kel-Tec, somewhere on mine a .380 Colt Goverment Model. All of these are tools, except one of the .260s which is a work of art.
I never had a bb gun, when I was a lad, I had a Benjamin Air Rifle. The worst punishment I ever endured occured the day after I left it loaded where some other kid got hold of it. He shot my sister in the cheek. The pellet lodged behind her ear. I lost all shooting privleges for as long as my dad could see the scar. At the time I was a pretty fair shot in the NRA junior matches, and my Winchester Model 52 was sold! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
A home defense weapon must be loaded or it is of little value, hand guns become hammers, and long guns become clubs. When someone we don't know comes to visit, all the firearms, except the carry guns go into the safe, where they also take up residence when we leave home for any reason. It is a pain in the tookus doing this, but is the only way to prove to a jury that you attempted to keep them out of the hands of a thief, or worse.
I never had a bb gun, when I was a lad, I had a Benjamin Air Rifle. The worst punishment I ever endured occured the day after I left it loaded where some other kid got hold of it. He shot my sister in the cheek. The pellet lodged behind her ear. I lost all shooting privleges for as long as my dad could see the scar. At the time I was a pretty fair shot in the NRA junior matches, and my Winchester Model 52 was sold! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
A home defense weapon must be loaded or it is of little value, hand guns become hammers, and long guns become clubs. When someone we don't know comes to visit, all the firearms, except the carry guns go into the safe, where they also take up residence when we leave home for any reason. It is a pain in the tookus doing this, but is the only way to prove to a jury that you attempted to keep them out of the hands of a thief, or worse.
F350Lawman
Gold Member
I have 2 -9mm's and think with good ammo the are fine for self defense. I also have a 380* which IS anemic but works well with summer clothes or business attire.
The 380* is tiny with no real sights so it is REALLY just for up close and personal situations. In a situation where I was forced to use it I think it would work. The bad guy would probably have a contact wound to the face after uttering "let me have your wallet", or some other nonsense /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Under most other circumstance my 380 is hard to aim and pretty underpowered with the light round and short barrel.
The 380* is tiny with no real sights so it is REALLY just for up close and personal situations. In a situation where I was forced to use it I think it would work. The bad guy would probably have a contact wound to the face after uttering "let me have your wallet", or some other nonsense /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Under most other circumstance my 380 is hard to aim and pretty underpowered with the light round and short barrel.
OP
itsmecindi
Gold Member
I have only one handgun, a thirty eight revolver. I wanted something small and feminine, one of those little purse type pistols like a derringer just because I liked the way it looked, but my husband said 'if yer gonna have a pistol, you might as well have something that will do some good'. Now he won't let me shoot it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The only reason he bought me my own shotgun was due to some startling success at shooting skeet. Five or six years ago one of the guys at the hunt club brought one of those clay flinging thingies for target practice and Fred jokingly said, 'why don't you try it" and offered his .410 for me to use.
Here's the way it went. Fred was operating the clay flinging thingie (I'm sure there's a more technical term for it, but I can't think what it is) my son Jake was loading for me.
First shot.
"Don't feel bad, it takes time"
Second shot.
"Good!"
Third shot.
"You're gettin' it!"
Fourth shot.
"Dang!
Fifth shot.
"Durn!"
Sixth shot.
He graduated to a more grown up expletive involving the possible canine ancestry of I'm not sure who or what.
Seventh shot.
Stunned silence.
Eighth shot.
"Dang, Fred, if this girl ain't got a shotgun of her own you need to get her one." This from one of the other hunters.
"Thank you John." Said Fred. Translation, mind yer own bid-ness buddy.
I hit something like eleven out of twelve before I quit. No one was any more flabbergasted than I was. It was nothing but pure D beginners luck. After the first miss I figured exactly where to aim and stuck with it.
It took him three or four years but I finally got a .410 of my own for Christmas, and I haven't been able to hit the broad side of a barn with it. Come to think of it, I haven't hit anything I've aimed at since. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Maybe we need to get one of those clay flinging thingies of our own.
The only reason he bought me my own shotgun was due to some startling success at shooting skeet. Five or six years ago one of the guys at the hunt club brought one of those clay flinging thingies for target practice and Fred jokingly said, 'why don't you try it" and offered his .410 for me to use.
Here's the way it went. Fred was operating the clay flinging thingie (I'm sure there's a more technical term for it, but I can't think what it is) my son Jake was loading for me.
First shot.
"Don't feel bad, it takes time"
Second shot.
"Good!"
Third shot.
"You're gettin' it!"
Fourth shot.
"Dang!
Fifth shot.
"Durn!"
Sixth shot.
He graduated to a more grown up expletive involving the possible canine ancestry of I'm not sure who or what.
Seventh shot.
Stunned silence.
Eighth shot.
"Dang, Fred, if this girl ain't got a shotgun of her own you need to get her one." This from one of the other hunters.
"Thank you John." Said Fred. Translation, mind yer own bid-ness buddy.
I hit something like eleven out of twelve before I quit. No one was any more flabbergasted than I was. It was nothing but pure D beginners luck. After the first miss I figured exactly where to aim and stuck with it.
It took him three or four years but I finally got a .410 of my own for Christmas, and I haven't been able to hit the broad side of a barn with it. Come to think of it, I haven't hit anything I've aimed at since. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Maybe we need to get one of those clay flinging thingies of our own.
Docsknotinn
Veteran Member
Roy, now come on old friend stop pullin on my leg like that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif A 9 mm as effective as a .45 ???? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I think we need to spend some range time together for me to bo even slightly convinced on that one. I guess to be fair I should have said caliber to caliber for the same size frame. I use a small frame .45 4" barrel. Now I actually would not call a .380 anemic as it is the most powerfull in its frame size. I am a fan of the .380 for concealled carry if ya gotta have an auto for that. Its just my opinion but the new Titanium .38 + P's are the top pick in my book for that purpose. They are BRUTAL to shoot though. But with laser sights are a lean mean machine at 15 oz loaded. I have heard nothing but good things on the Larger frame hunting style pistols from Taurus. In the small frames I do think the .32 is anemic and that is always good for a debate as the party lines seem drawn right down the middle on that one. If I had another one of those .25 autos I probably would rather throw rocks. lol. Dave
RoyJackson
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"Roy, now come on old friend stop pullin on my leg like that A 9 mm as effective as a .45 ???? "
A good +P or +P+ round has a lot of energy coming out of the barrel. I'm no expert by any means, but there's a lot of agencies using 9mm handguns. I use "+P " ammo when I carry one of the Glocks (17 or 19) or Kahr MK9.
Due to the mass of a .45 ACP (230 gr) vs. a 9mm (115 gr to 160gr), the .45 may have more knock down power when that bullet hits fleshy tissure or bone, but either caliber will do the job quite effectively. A range trip would result in showing the .45 making a bigger hole in a paper or cardboard target, but not how hard the round hits (thus, expending the energy) the target. Even a standard (non "+P") 9 round moves quite a bit faster then that .45 round, so it's not just a matter of bullet diameter.
I belong to a few Handgun websites. This particular topic (.45 vs. 9mm) has been argued for a long time. Both sides make their points. Reckon it really comes down to what you feel most comfortable carrying. For me, considering the price of ammo, ease of shooting, the probable proximity of a real self defense incident (better be mighty close to your assailant, otherwise "self defense" may not be a valid defense in court...remember, you've got to try to evade using lethal force except as a last resort)...all of these reasons lead me to a 9 being as effective as a .45 (then we can discuss .40 caliber, eh?).
Of course, I am looking for a Glock 30 (.45 ACP) for carry. Probably sell one of the 1911's to buy that gun.
All a matter of personal preference, I guess.
My .38 is the Multialloy model. The frame is aluminum, cylinder and barrel shroud are titanium. This piece weighs just over 13 oz. which is great if you pocket carry. Granted, not particularly comfortable to shoot and most likely it'll wear out before the steel (or plastic) guns. But for it's purpose, it's a great CCW.
A good +P or +P+ round has a lot of energy coming out of the barrel. I'm no expert by any means, but there's a lot of agencies using 9mm handguns. I use "+P " ammo when I carry one of the Glocks (17 or 19) or Kahr MK9.
Due to the mass of a .45 ACP (230 gr) vs. a 9mm (115 gr to 160gr), the .45 may have more knock down power when that bullet hits fleshy tissure or bone, but either caliber will do the job quite effectively. A range trip would result in showing the .45 making a bigger hole in a paper or cardboard target, but not how hard the round hits (thus, expending the energy) the target. Even a standard (non "+P") 9 round moves quite a bit faster then that .45 round, so it's not just a matter of bullet diameter.
I belong to a few Handgun websites. This particular topic (.45 vs. 9mm) has been argued for a long time. Both sides make their points. Reckon it really comes down to what you feel most comfortable carrying. For me, considering the price of ammo, ease of shooting, the probable proximity of a real self defense incident (better be mighty close to your assailant, otherwise "self defense" may not be a valid defense in court...remember, you've got to try to evade using lethal force except as a last resort)...all of these reasons lead me to a 9 being as effective as a .45 (then we can discuss .40 caliber, eh?).
Of course, I am looking for a Glock 30 (.45 ACP) for carry. Probably sell one of the 1911's to buy that gun.
All a matter of personal preference, I guess.
My .38 is the Multialloy model. The frame is aluminum, cylinder and barrel shroud are titanium. This piece weighs just over 13 oz. which is great if you pocket carry. Granted, not particularly comfortable to shoot and most likely it'll wear out before the steel (or plastic) guns. But for it's purpose, it's a great CCW.
EdKing
Platinum Member
<font color="blue"> "Roy, now come on old friend stop pullin on my leg like that A 9 mm as effective as a .45 ???? " </font>
I personally like the .40 S&W. Fits in the same action size as a 9 mm, close to a .357 mag in energy. The key point being missed in effectiveness is bullet placement. If you hit the target in the right place, a 9 mm is every bit as effective as a .45. The lighter recoil of the 9 mm makes it easier to place the shots in the right area. The 9 mm also has the advantage of fitting more ammo in the same size pistol.
I personally like the .40 S&W. Fits in the same action size as a 9 mm, close to a .357 mag in energy. The key point being missed in effectiveness is bullet placement. If you hit the target in the right place, a 9 mm is every bit as effective as a .45. The lighter recoil of the 9 mm makes it easier to place the shots in the right area. The 9 mm also has the advantage of fitting more ammo in the same size pistol.
RoyJackson
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"I personally like the .40 S&W."
I've been thinking about picking up a 40 for quite a while. Reckon the only thing holding me back is I just don't want to add another caliber to my collection. Kind of a stupid reason, but there you go...
Shot placement is a good point...in fact, the most important aspect of shooting in a defensive situation.
I've been thinking about picking up a 40 for quite a while. Reckon the only thing holding me back is I just don't want to add another caliber to my collection. Kind of a stupid reason, but there you go...
Shot placement is a good point...in fact, the most important aspect of shooting in a defensive situation.
CountryBoy
Silver Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If a kid can't handle a bb gun properly why in the heck would you let him carry a 30.06? )</font>
You would not want him to go shooting electric meters with a 30.06,let alone anything else. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I agree with you Doc,an individual needs to be mature enough and responsible enough and experienced enough before they go handling any type of gun,BB gun included.
You would not want him to go shooting electric meters with a 30.06,let alone anything else. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I agree with you Doc,an individual needs to be mature enough and responsible enough and experienced enough before they go handling any type of gun,BB gun included.
Docsknotinn
Veteran Member
Roy, you are correct of course in regards to the 9mm being standard issue. To many the standard NATO issue calibers are a big bonus. I want to be clear that I was not saying that the 9 is a poor choice but many hand gun "experts " (lol) say the 9 is anemic in comparison to the knock down power of the .45. Of course the Mass Vs Velocity debate will out live either of us. A trip to the range with me after we set every thing up would reveal a bit more than hole size. One we get the chronograph set up we can deal with real numbers which are often far different from the ones on the box. For all calibers. I have never owned a .40 . I do not see the % in it. Ammo is more $ and I have known many serious shooters who claim it has more felt recoil than the .45 with less impact and more technical failures. I think the .40 smith is one of those love it or leave it calibers. But then I have shot Weatherbys for years with no other justification other than I just plain like them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Dave
